A question to those who were alive during Ali-Frazier I

Burt,I once knew an American whose dad was a Vietnam vet. Apparently a lot of them respected Ali for his stance. They were over there not knowing what the hell they were fighting for. Still,this is a bit off thread. We're all entitled to our view,are n't we ? Have a good weekend Burt.

 

I was 15 at the time & it was a sysmic event & the shock of Clay/Ali losing as i'd never heard of Joe Frazier. It was all about Cassius Clay & it was all the buzz amoungst the school teachers, even Clay/Liston was all the talk of the school teachers when i was a kid.

We'd followed Ali's comeback fights on BBC & when your young it just don't seem possible that the man you saw as representing everything that appeared unbeatable to get knocked down & lose to someone you'd obviously never heard about. My late mother was more than happy that Ali got beat, she hated him.

 

Jeezus McVey, to afford that back in 71 you must have been into offering pubs insurence that they did'nt burn down eh

£125 quid was serious money back then:yep

 

S, you cite one American ,whos dad respected Ali for his stance. So what? there is alway's misguided individuals in any subject. Steve, the damn fact that you and I are texting each other is BECAUSE there were millions of Yanks and Brits who did what Ali did not have the "balls" to do, obey the law and serve his country. Ali was no damn hero,as he newver was shot and executed nor thrown in the prison or brig for years as they did in WW2
and prior war's. You want a hero to worship S, than read about Barney Ross who could have escaped fighting in WW2,but VOLUNTEERED to fight in the U.S.Marines and became an authentic hero in the bloody battle of
Guadalcanal,saving his buddies lives,whilst seeing some of them die in his foxhole. Barney Ross was a HERO, Cassius Clay who refused to serve and never got prison time was NOT.And so were all members of the RAF in the
battle of Britain in WW2,they were truly worthy of adoration, not Ali.
Ross, and the RAF saved our ass,so these are the men we should venerate.
Not draft-dodgers...:hi:

 

weeks before the fight,its all you heard about when you turned on the television.and i live in canada

 

Still a better fighter than Dempsey though.

 

My own mum had the hots for Ali..!! She would have been the first to admit though,that she did n't know the difference between a left hook and a coat hook

 

I certainly respect anyone who goes and serves their country,Burt. My own dad was one of them. Ali thought that the Vietnam mess was wrong and he did n't go. Yes,I appreciate the point that you make about democracy. I've followed a lot of your posts here Burt,and I respect you,big time !

 

And S I likewise respect you. So Ali, the fountain of intellectual wisdom, who couldn't pass an Army test supposedly, should decide the United States foreign policy, Steve ? Now I get it. Honestly S, I don't get your drift. For any country to exist,especially a Democratic system,laws have to be observed,or else anarchy takes over. And if we all followed your noble
Cassius Clay [Ali's] choosing to observe, what the heck laws fit his desires,
anarchy takes over ,pure and simple...Think about that S...He became a "pacifist" after he became a member of the Nation of Islam,and that is a fact...Take care,and have an open mind...:hi:

 

I was in college at the time, and the only options available to those not in actual attendance at the fight was closed circuit TV at select theatres and arenas, and round-by-round summaries broadcast over the radio. While I did not watch it live, I was glued to the radio - in my lifetime it was both the biggest and most anticipated sporting event I can recall. ( I would say the second most anticipated boxing match was Leonard-Hearns I.) Lewis-Tyson was certainly highly anticipated, but in a whole different league than FOTC. I was rooting for Joe Frazier and felt that at that time he was truly invincible. When Ali started fighting flatfooted against Joe, I remember thinking that that was Frazier's game and no one would beat him at it. After Ali was staggered in the 11th, I thought the end may be near. When the summary for round 12 came, the radio announcer started by saying "The fight is still on ..." When the announcer said that there was a knockdown in round 15, I knew that it had to be Ali who went down. That was Joe Frazier's night.

A couple days after the fight, as he was in a van getting ready to leave New York, Ali began his "I really won the fight" routine. It was on the news and he said that he felt that he won at least 10 of the 15 rounds. "I probably lost the round I was knocked down in, and I gave away some of the rounds by clowning." Angelo Dundee said some time later that "He (Ali) knows he lost." On a much later anniversary of FOTC (20th or 30th), Ali admitted "He (Frazier) won that one."

I agree with some previous posts that it is a shame that we don't get to see this fight, for whatever reason. I taped it when it ran on HBO many years ago, and you see some things not shown in the highlights - for example Ali covering up on the ropes while Frazier pound his body, then all of a sudden Frazier grabs him by the shoulders and pulls him off the ropes. In another instance, Ali goes down in a middle round from what looked like a legitimate punch, but it was ruled a slip. Even the commentator questioned that call. But watching the fight, one thing is clear - it was a great fight that more than lived up to its expectations.

One more recollection to give some perspective on how highly anticipated it was - one of my classmates went to the St. James Theatre in Asbury Park, NJ to watch the closed circuit telecast. Someone phoned in a bomb threat to the theatre. No one left their seat!

 

1. Yes

2. Yes, easily.

3. It overwhelmed Lewis-Tyson in anticipation. You are talking about two great undefeated heavyweights near the peak of their careers meeting with the whole world tuned in.

4. I thought Frazier would finish Ali in the late rounds, somewhere around the 11th. I was pulling for Frazier. That Ali lasted the distance surprised me, though he fought one of his best fights ever that night. Frazier was a machine in that '68-'70 era.

5. No

6. I thought Ali was in real trouble after the 11th and would be fortunate to make it the distance.

 

I remember my father, who worked with Futch and Joe, hoping vocally that Joe would retire soon.

I was stunned, and young, and was excited our fighter had won, and I remember being rather confused. I asked Dad why, and he said,

"Cause Muhammad will force as many rematches as he can down the line, and win every one of them. I guarantee tonight took more out of Joe than it did Ali."

It was Frazier's high water mark, but my fathers prophetic prediction stuck with me, as I grew older wishing he had indeed thought about retiring. He was on top of the heavyweight pool on the night of FOTC. I can't imagine how much it burnt seeing his triumph over his great rival whittled down.

So, FOTC is a bittersweet memory. A great fight, and one of my favorite victories, but it was so decisively avenged, and I was looking for it so intently, that I can look back and simply say, "If Only."

I wish Joe Frazier had more triumphant moments like that one. He deserved them, and gave his everything to get to the top.

 

Ali was piece of ****, no doubt. lets not forget, he wasn't ever going to fight in war, just be a soldier who gave exhibitions and visited wounded guys in hospital. People made like he was going to be put into combat, which was never going to happen. He instead made money speaking at colleges across country, and doing paid exhibitions.

 

Remind me what did Dempsey do during WW1? He was himself reviled as a draft dodger during his time as champ, if I remember correctly. But I suppose he had signed the draft, just for the army to back out. Much like what later happpened with Wills.:yep

 

You are quite right that Frazier should have retired after the FOTC. Durham advised him to do just that. Frazier was NEVER the same fighter after the FOTC. He lost his edge and quite a bit of his desire and losing those things were everything to a fighter who had lesser physical skills than Ali and Foreman.

I do disagree with the word "decisively" as far as Ali winning the rematches. Fights 2 and 3 could have easily swung Frazier's way, too. Ali got away with murder in the 2nd fight, of course, he was never going to lose the decision in that fight. Too much future $$$ involved.

Rest assure though that Smokin' Joe Frazier prevailed in the most important fight of the trilogy. The one where BOTH men would be nearest their peaks, in what both men knew what would be their most important fight of their careers, with the whole world watching.