A Re-assessment Of Gentleman Jim Corbett

You do got some issues dude.

You took nothing, and made it into a racist accusation. And you want a "polite" response?

 

I've objected to his use of the term several times in the past because I find it dumb and disrespectful. This time I finally noticed an uncomfortable pattern (thanks in part to an article on implicit bias that I just read) so I asked about it. Probably nothing but it rubbed me the wrong way. It is what it is...

PS - I'll admit that him calling Slice a "nothing," is less idiotic than when he branded some of the other accomplished fighters and contenders with that slur. But still disrespectful and meanspirited, especially considering that the man just passed.

 

Yeah, I also respect anyone who steps into the ring. I think he used bold words to argue against the crazy idea that Kimbo Slice would beat Corbett.

But I think you need to reserve those kinds of accusations for when they are truly warranted.

I forgot that Kimbo passed. Such a shame for anyone to die at that age. Boxing aside, we as a society need to start making bigger leaps in health care.

 

imo corbett did a lot of good things defensivley, but his offence is not good at all and he often abandons any defence to use it.

 

Do we know they hadn't had more fights ?

 

It's a good term, imo. Used in correct context.

If I play a bit of tennis in my spare time, win a few matches, and somehow a comparison with Novak Djokovic comes up, it's accurate to say I'm a nothing by that standard.
I don't even register as a blip on the radar.

I might run a successful business and employ a few people and have a couple of million in assets, but I'm a nothing in the world of the W.arren Buffet and Bill Gates and the billionaire tyc00ns.

 

Corbett vs McVoey was a hard fight, with both men down. Hardly the sign of a fixed fight.

[url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E05E5DA1039E733A25752C3A96E9C946197D6CF[/url]

 

Kevin, off topic, the lateKimbo Slice can hit hard. He was based near me. Though not a skilled fighter, if he lands flush most are hurt or doing down.

>>>Now to Corbett

Many of the records of the old timers are incomplete. This is especially true of fighters who fought in the 1800's.

Below is a list of three combined reported sources for Corbett's ring record. Based on the combined lists Corbett had 64 fights!

Take note, Corbett was 59-0-3 at one point before losing to Bob Fitzsimmons! Only a true boxing master could achieve such a record.

** the 59-0-3 record assumes the W vs Peter Jackson as listed is really a draw. Otherwise, its 60-0-2** Be sure to read the key at the bottom of the page.

Many W's are really Ko wins for Corbett.


Appendix 1
FOR THE RECORD: The following is the complete list of bouts for James J. Corbett and Charles Mitchell according to the Ocala (Fla.) Evening Star of Feb. 2, 1894. Additional results from the Ring Record Book and Boxing's Top 100 has been included on this list. In some cases, dates, first names, and another information are not available.

JAMES J. CORBETT:
San Francisco, Daw Eiseman, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Jim Hare, four rounds, W
San Francisco, Ed Siossen, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Jim McCarty, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Joe Chosinski, one round, W, (a)
San Francisco, Bob McCord, one round, W
San Francisco, Billy Welch, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, George Maxwell, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Tom Pollard, four rounds, W
San Francisco , John Dwyer, one round, W
San Francisco, Ed Rose, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, L.R. Fulda, four rounds, W
San Francisco, Jack Burke, eight rounds, draw, (8-27-88 )
San Francisco, Mike Brennan, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, Con Riordan, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Captain James H. Daley (also Daily), 4 rounds, W
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, four rounds, W, (5-30-89) (a)
Salt Lake City, Frank Smith, sewn rounds, W
Salt Lake City, Duncan McDonald, eight rounds, W , (b)
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, three rounds (some sources say four), W, (7-15-89) San Francisco, Martin Costello, four rounds, W
San Francisco, George Atkinson, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Prof. William Miller, six rounds, W
San Francisco, Larry SUlliwn, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Frank Glowr, four rounds, W, (6-30-88 (c)
San Francisco, John Donaldson, eight rounds, W
Portland, Ore., Daw Campbell, 10 rounds, W, (7-29-89) (d)
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, 27 rounds, W, (6-5-89) (a)
New Orleans, Jake Kilrain, six rounds, W, (2-18-90)
Brooklyn, Dominic McCaffery, four rounds, W, (4-14-90)
San Francisco, Peter Jackson, 61 rounds, W, (5-2-91) (e)
Milwaukee, Ed Kinney, four rounds, W, (10-8-91)
Philadelphia, Matt Donovan, one round, W, (3-20-89) (f)
New Jersey, Peter Courtney, six rounds, W, (9-7-94)
Philadelphia, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95) (g)
Philadelphia, Bubbles Davis, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Bob Caffrey, four rounds, W
Philadelphia, Sailor Brown, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Brady, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Mike Moneghan, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Joe Godfrey, three rounds, W


Philadelphia, Jack Haughey, one rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Langdon, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Denny Kelleher, four rounds, W
Philadelphia, Joe Wilson, three rounds, W
Madison Square Garden, William Speflings, one round, W, (h) Madison Square Garden, Bob Goffey, one round, W
Madison Square Garden, Joe Lannon, th.-ee rounds, W, (i) Hartford, John McMahan, two rounds, W
Albany, Jack McDonald, one rounds, W
Columbus, Jim Hughes, two rounds, W
Butte, Mont. , Jack Grace, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Mike Olson, one round, W
Tucson, Mike Sullivan, two rounds, W
EI Paso , Jack Donnelly, two rounds, W
New Orleans, John L. Sullivan, 21 rounds, W, (9-7-92) Jacksonville, Charlie Mitchell, three rounds, W, (1-25-94)
New Orleans, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95)
San Francisco, Tom Sharkey, four rounds, draw (6-24-96) (j) Carson City, Nev., Bob Fitzsimmons, 14 rounds, L, (3-17-97)
New York, Tom Sharkey, 9 rounds, L (foul), (11-22-98
Coney Island, Jim Jeffries, 23 rounds, L, (5-11-1900)
New York, Kid McCoy, five rounds, W, (8-30-1900)
San Francisco, Jim Jeffries, 10 rounds, L, (8-14-03)





KEY CORBETT NOTES:
(a) correct spelling is Joe ChoYnSki, first fight is also called a no decision by some sources; 5­30-89, stopped by police in the fourth round; 6-5-89, stopped ChOYnski in the 27th, and 7­15-89, won four-round bout according to 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time by Bert Sugar.
(b) also called a draw by some sources.
(c) also called a draw by some sources.
(d) called a draw after 10 rounds because Corbett failed to score a knockout as agreed.
(e) called a no contest by referee Hiram Cook, no punches were thrown in the 61st round, fight took four hours and 10 minutes, also (and more reasonably) called a draw by some sources .
(f) also listed as Mike Donovan and called a sparring session or exhibition by some sources. (g) the site also listed as New Orleans, McVey listed as Jim and John by different sources.
(h) result is similar to one reported for 2-16-92, a one-round victory o\ler one Bill Spilling in Rochester.
(i) also called a no decision by some sources
(j) also has 1-round KO victory o\ler Emest Roeber on 1-3-97, no site,

 

Corbett's record prior to facing Peter Jackson is 59-0-3 if you use news decisions and count shorter fights.

Many historians viewed him highly in his times and so did the fighters.

See post #42 in this thread. There are plenty of names and notes to read. As for backing things up, let's just say you'd rather switch topics more often than not.

 

Most all hwt champions fight a list of soft touches. Many fighters hit hard.

Slice had something like eight total boxing matches and if you add up his opponents records it amounts to a 16-18 win/loss in total. Slice hit hard but he could not really fight technically.

With Corbett we cannot be sure of many opponents records. ATG fighters would be excellent in any era once given time to adjust. Being an ATG means more than obvious boxing skill although Corbett had this in droves. What makes a great fighter are intrinsic attributes such as heart, will to win, conditioning. These are not readily seen watching herky jerky pre silient film action.

 

Here's his "official" record. The vast majority of it is one or two round exhibitions with a half-dozen guys on the same days at an athletic club (meaning they were just sparring). If he toured in a play that included boxing, those are included as well.

Frankly, Kimbo Slice, who keeps getting mentioned, was involved in more "real" fights in someone's backyard than Jim Corbett was in the ring.

Corbett certainly wasn't 59-0 ... or anything like that.

[url]http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/corbett.htm[/url]