A tale of three heavyweight jabs

We've been here before but humour me.

Why Ali over Holmes?

I suspect and if I recall correctly, you, alike me, think his corkscrew jab and the effect that it had in setting up later knock-downs, disorientating opponents, its speed, accuracy and difficulty to counter in his prime, made it a unique weapon that his entire offense was built on, is somewhat understated.

Look forward to your reasoning.

 

Larry Holmes. Mike Tyson had a quicker jab than Ali, he could slip and jab better than Ali.

 

Marciano did not nave a good jab.

 

Frazier did not have good jab too.
Marciano has left hook almost equal as Fraziers, but has uppercut/cross which Frazier does not.
Stamina is also Marciano egde and strenght too.
Only thing Frazier is better is at hand speed.

 

Frazier has better head movement and faster feet than Rocco.

Frazier also has better punch placement and accuracy.

 

Frazier actually had a very good jab, check out the first Quarry fight.

 

Liston's jab was so powerful it often pushed his opponents out of range for a follow up right hand. Ali held his hands too low and left himself open for counters, especially in the latter part of his career. Holmes seems to have split the difference between them.

 

Hmm, not completely sure on this. Holmes had amazing ring generalship and IQ early on, check out the masterful Shavers I fight.

No disrespect intended, Flash.

 

None taken of course. It's also a very
valid opinion.
But try to imagine Holmes with an average
jab? Yes he had good ring generalship
good IQ.
but would that have made him exceptional?
Or even very good?

 

Marciano was less vulnearble to uppercuts and right hands unlike Frazier.
Also Marciano has stronger legs and better footwork.
Only thing Frazier is better than Rocco it is handspeed but not that much.
I think that Marciano is really better than Frazier as Ali said once.

 

I vote for still very good and even probably champ among the early 80s crowd, though admittedly that isn't saying a whole lot lol.

 

Wlad definitely had a harder jab than Liston.

Patterson probably has a faster jab than Ali. Seldon is also up there.

 

I've never heard anyone suggest that Marciano had faster or better footwork than Frazier.

We are not going to agree and Ali said a lot of things - I take many of his statements with a pinch of salt.

 

You could say that about anyone though, look at Lewis for example he relied alot on the jab to control his opponents. Take his jab away how effective would Lewis be ?

Holmes also showed tremendous bravery vs Weaver, Norton, Witherspoon, when the chips were down and he wasn't having it all his own way with his jab, he showed other ATG attributes that got him out of those situations. So I don't really agree with your opinion, I normally agree with alot of what you say but not here.

 

I thought it was The Tale Of Two Cities starring The Fab 4, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr, The Beatles. Ha Ha.