In seeing that many posters have claimed some measure of bias for Tyson in the other thread, this is a thread for Tyson-ite's who know what's going on and are tired of the beast that he was being underrated for the purposes of romanticism. He's either the first or second best H2H HW ever and gets no credit from most historian's, classic nuthuggers who want to believe that Dempsey and Louis would have beaten him and then the horrible class of Teddy Atlas's and Bert Sugar's. To Al Bernstein's credit, he at least has Tyson in the top 10. Tyson as a lock for the top 10 in an all time scenerio is all that is needed, not top 5, just top 10. A lock for a top 3 H2H has to be top 10 and nobody tore through a crop of solid competition like Tyson did, his run was immensely impressive and he gets only so much credit from the 'top dogs'.
I really can't think of any fighter who gets as both overrated and underrated as Tyson does. I mean, every fighter is both, depending on who is doing the rating, but Tyson's seems so extreme.
Tyson in his time was included in the Ring P4P toprating. as a hw that says something. Most of his other skills besides his power simply aren't looked at or appreciated nowadays. They are forgotten or underrated. His elusive defence, ring smart, boxing knowledge, work rate, fitness, old skool throwbackness etc. All people remember is the 50% Tyson after prison. Young people who never witnessed the dedicated Tyson with the Catskill team and only witnessed the not-dedicated Tyson without the Catskill team shouldn't be allowed to talk about him. Because the difference between these two 'versions' were simply that big. The man wrote history like no other fighter besides Ali and Louis did. That's one special fighter that won't be seen in a long time again
A prime Tyson was a beast of a machine of a beast...well....Tyson. He would of beat a lot of the greats H2H. That is without a doubt. I think the lifting weights in jail messed up his mojo.
The difference would be insane. Like two completely different fighters (with some resemblance in stance and minor look). The 90's Tyson only had his power running for him against a 80's Tyson (who was simply better in all other areas. Bigtime better). btw i remember a few interviews were Tyson said he often dreamt in his sleep that he was fighting himself
i've even seen some buffoon in the classic forum pick jack johnson to KO tyson:nut. a turn of the century fighter knocking out the pinnacle of heavyweight evolution? preposterous. no wonder i rarely visit that part of ESB. that **** was worse than the pep KO barrera talk, or the joe louis KO wlad talk. top 1 h2h heavyweight for me. the guy gets underrated by writers, fans and the like. i also dont buy the "stand up to tyson and he'd crumble" line of thinking. look what happened to bruno, ruddock et al. even if tyson did'nt realize his tremendous potential he still unified the belts, cleaned out the division, disposed easily of b level guys like an elite is supposed to, hardly dropped a round in his prime and is just a frightening talent. some people here say rjj is the best physical specimen there was in boxing, imo tyson was cut from the exact same cloth. in boxing history has there ever been another 220 lb guy with hand speed like a welter, KO power in both hands, some of the best head movement there was, quick feet allowing leverage in every shot, a complete punch arsenal, stamina, always let his hands fly and had an iron chin? i think not. tyson is an ATG no matter what anyone says. would you classify tyson as a 'Supernatural'?
head to head, i cant see many HWs ****ing with Iron Mike, but based off accomplishments and the whole package, he isn't top 5..
Mike Tyson was the most talented heavyweight of all time when he was in his prime. I have never seen a heavyweight with that kind of speed, explosiveness, power, and skill all rolled into one. He's top 3 H2H at his best.
You hit the nail on the head, Amsterdam. He is EASILY top three Head to Head, All-Time. I wouldn't be against having him in top spot, even.