A tidbit on SRL...

It doesn't matter.

It came from the horses mouth in my point too.

I have the talk shows on tape.

SRL visit ALL the MAJOR talk shows and said he was going to box Hagler blah blah blah.

My one came from the horses mouth, yours is now second hand information via Paul Smith.

It is Chinese whispers. Leonard could have said he got knocked down but at a loud BBQ, Smith thought he heard knocked out. Plus, what does he mean by knocked out? I wouldn't be suprised if SRL got knocked down hard and they stopped the sparring session. It happens all the time, its not a real fight, no need to take unnecessary punishment.

When it comes to SRL boxing Haglelr, it is irrefutable that Leonard decided on this gameplan MONTHS before facing Hagler.

 

Leonard couldn't handle southpaws during training camp for his fight with Hagler. Gil Clancy visited Leonard and seen him sparring with southpaws, and he had a very hard time being effective against them.

Hagler was at his most effective when he turned southpaw against Leonard.

 

If you guys avoided posting in pairs it might be less apparent that you are the same persons.

 

one thing I know for sure is what I saw in Marvin during his sparring session and he wasn't able to land anything on his three sparring partners.

that's why I wasn't surprised at all over his poor showing with leonard and why I don't rank leonard as the top fighter of the decade.

Ray absolutely needed Hagler to have a huge disadvantage and is the reason why he tried getting Marvin to take off a few pounds down to 154. and when he didn't cooperate, retired instead of taking the fight even though that's when most people consider him at his peak.

By 1987 Marvin slowed down enuff to where Ray could finally compete with him and you can even hear him quoted by Tim Ryan on the 6th round of the fight as saying he lost a lot of speed and that he was counting on thw slowness of Hagler.

Leonard fans hate hearing that-that's why they never bring it up.

 

Neither you nor your momma have anything to worry about, 'cause you sure aren't whupping up on anybody here.

 

If getting knocked out in sparring convinced him to run from Hagler then that was the best possible thing that could have happened to him. By surviving to the final bell, he was almost guaranteed the decision.

 

Spoken like a true disciple, or should i say alter ego

 

I watched Leonard v Finch a few nights ago. Leonard said after the fight he would not be willing to go all the way up to full middleweight, and Hagler himself said getting down to 154lbs would mean he'd weaken himself. Leonard did say he'd meet Hagler at a catchweight, around 156lbs, and he further stated it would be fine since Hagler usually weighs in a few pounds under the middleweight limit. I'm sure Leonard mentioned Hagler coming in at 157 or 158lbs for one of his previous middleweight defenses.

The above maybe looks like I'm defending Leonard. But Im not taking any sides, I'm just accurately quoting what Leonard said after the Finch fight.

 

the weight he mentioned was 154, not 156. I read it Ring magazine covering the leonard interview following leonard-heanrs 1 and Hagler-hamsho.

If you watch hagler-hamsho you can hear it yourself. at first there was no mention about weights and I assumed leonard was for real when he said he wanted Hagler "I want to give him an opportunity"-he kept saying it throughout the fight.

but then the truth came out when Merchant went up to interview Marvin afterwards and said Ray would only fight at 154 which is the lower limit.

the only conclusion you can make is leonard never would face Hagler at full strength in the tradition of Griffith, Walker, Robinson. that's why you never see me mention his name with theirs.

 

Not trying to be funny mate. But your actually calling me a liar, as I watched the Finch fight at the start of the week, and I'm quoting you on what Leonard said about fighting Hagler. This aint no Leonard fan here, and I'm not twisting his quotes in anyway to make his case look better.

He did say he could not get up to middleweight at that point in his career as he'd be sacrificing speed with the extra added weight. He stated that he'd previously fought at 154lbs once, but he was really only a natural welterweight. He did take into consideration that Hagler coming down to 154lbs would weaken him, then he said a fight between Hagler and himself would need to take place between 154lbs and 160lbs, and he said around 156lbs.

Im not firing back and calling you a liar, as Leonard may well have said that in the Ring magazine, but trust me he did say the above after the Finch.

 

Honestly, bro, I don't think Leonard fans care. As long as Hagler's name is on Leonard's record with a W after it, that's good enough for them. What's good enough for Ray is good enough for his devotees.I also think that some on here get special joy out of his win over Hagler because Hagler so completely outclassed the top two British middleweight of the era. You can see by the way they reacted the night Hagler won the title that a number of boxing fans over there are driven by more than an appreciation of boxing excellence. Some - not all, but some - suffer from an inferiority complex because they have, with a few notable exceptions, always trailed the United States in the sport. They might wish to bring up Dave Boy here - "didn't Leonard beat him?" - but Green had already been humiliated by Palomino, so he was a two-time loser unworthy of indignation.

 

It really bugged me the way Leonard kept making it all about him. He was supposed to be a commentator. I wished somebody had told him to shut up and do his job.

 

I'll take your word for it then. I might be mistaken so i'll check the tape again.

 

Redrooster. Not sure your version will be the same as mines. I have the British version, ITV. And Reg Guttridge never interviewed Leonard after the Finch fight in the ring, it was after the bout when Leonard was dressed and sitting down. In a hotel probably.

What I'll do tommorow is listen to the interview again, and write down exactly what Leonard said. And ITV did interviews with fighters 20 years ago after the fight away from the ring. Gutteridge interviewed Holmes in the locker room after his fight with Ali, and Hagler sat next to Sibson outside in the sun while Gutteridge interviewed them both after Hagler's second win over Obelmeijas.