ABC Belts = Lineal?

He did. I just didn't explain my logic correctly.

I have been saying that if the line is broken, you need to unify all the belts to 'restart' it as such. (IMO of course)

The reason you do that (which I never said ) is because the belt holders are considered the best. If you beat them all, and have all the belts, you should be the best. At which point, you can be considered the lineal champ.

I don't think we're poles apart, but you have been saying #1 and #2 etc - but based on nothing. I have just been basing it on, if you have 4 guys with the abc belts (or 3 really, I'm not sold on the WBO just yet) - then they PROBABLY are the best 3.

I don't believe that if you have 3 belt holders, you should be calling somebody outside of those 3, and #1 or #2 ranked guy. That's just waaaaay too subjective for me.

 

<> means not equal to. I guess that's my IT background coming out.....

 

Well, there has to be some standard established before a lineal champ can be designated

 

i think the process of determining a lineal champ in a weight division will be much easier if we first agree upon who the top two fighters in a weight division are. the next step is to establish if one of them currently holds lineage (lineal champ).

that's why imo the ring ratings are the closest thing we currently have in tracking the lineal champ in every weight division. but i do agree it would be very difficult to reach a "general consensus" so the ring ratings are a good starting point.

 

Well, I think in those cases that's just unfortunate for those guys.

There are always exceptions to anything that comes along. Thing is, if you open the door, there are too many exceptions that seem valid IMO.

I need something definitive to stake my claim on eg the belts. It may be harsh in some cases, but it's measurable. (It's also far from perfect, but that's another matter).

Public opinion isn't. Lets say the current LHW champ retired. And PBF and Winky decided to have a fight at LHW. Would the winner be lineal? Or Calzaghe and Kessler had a fight at LHW? See what I mean.

The belts prove a guy is decent, and has a history at that weight, that's all.

 

<> is nerd talk for "not equal to"

 

Well...

Lineage goes from winner to winner.

So far so good.

IF lineage is broken it can only be reinstated when championships are unified.

In other words when WBC and WBA are unified. OR if we use stricter demands when WBC, WBA and IBF are unified.

______________________________

The reason why "when the two best in the division fight" in itself is not useful, is because noone is ever going to agree who these two best fighters are. And if we simply go with the majority, it would be dictatorship of the majority since many people are nationalistic the biggest country will decide who the best are. In LHW currently the two best would be Hopkins and Dawson - although Erdei may have a good claim, but for the completely unjustified reason that there are more Americans, Erdei's case is irrelevant no matter what he has done.

That is why "the 2 best" is right, but we need a way to settle that, which is transparent and consistent.

While unifying the belts will not always give the right picture it is up to the fighters to make it give the right picture. Maybe Teofilio Stevenson was the best boxer and better than Ali, but it was up to him to turn pro and prove it! Just like a fighter today that is not champ, cannot claim to be the best and has to do an effort to get a belt and start unifying if lineage has been broken.

 

WBA and WBC establish lineage.

The orgs i.e. NBA, BBBofC used to dictate who the champ was. These orgs formed into the WBA and WBC.

Every other belt is just a splinter group or trinket.

 

What? Look at the hsitory of alphabet crap:

The WBC was splintered from the WBA in 1963, as was the IBF (1983) and WBO (87-88).

The NBA (WBA post 1962) was splintered from the NYSAC in 1921...

The IBU formed in 1911, the NSC the future (BBB of C) formed in 1891, and Richard K Fox's Police Gazzette was giving out titles as early as the late 1880's.

To gain a World Champion at a weight that has a vacant championship is not rocket science, if the #1 and #2 contenders meet the winner will be World Champion, you do not need WBA, C, F, G or Z to tell you that!

 

maybe =/= means not equal