Absolute bums

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Jan 11, 2018.


  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    As a poster you are my favorite BUM and i'd never call a fighter that :thumbsup:
     
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Thanks for the compliment. :eusa_dance:
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    They've always been called bums. Because that's literally what they were.
    In the slums and poor neighbourhoods honest work was hard and low paid so some bums looked to the ring to avoid a regular job. So those who treated boxing as a real profession and worked hard and tried to win were given due respect. But those bums who just showed up for a weekend pay cheque, never trained for fights and flopped in the ring were bums. They were same guys who didn't work regular jobs. Just loafers who liked to fight - until fights got a bit tough when they'd quit.
    Fighting for money isn't automatically honest work by any divine right. Thugs and bums fight anyway. It's not some middle class snobbery to point out the obvious.
    And one of the reasons no one calls tennis players bums is because bums from the street corner or on a bar stool don't often fancy themselves as tennis players but they DO fancy themselves as fighters.
    Sorry to break it to you but professional boxers has always had very low standards at the bottom. Unfortunately promoters are too keen to put bums in the ring.
    In tennis you just don't get many fat lazy guys who haven't practiced in years getting invited to tournaments. It doesn't happen. And even the worst players have to run around for at least a couple of sets. When bums start turning up regularly on the tennis court, fat and breathless and quitting after a few points, I'm sure they would be called bums. But that won't happen.
    Boxing has been called "the red-light district of sport" with good reason. There's a distinct underbelly of pro boxing that has no analogous cohort in something like tennis.
     
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  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    For those who never and would never call a fighter a "bum", what exactly would you call a fighter who is obviously in disgraceful shape and obviously looking to quit ?
    Would you blanch at using the words "fat" and "lazy" and "quitter" ?
    Are those words off limits to you too ?
     
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think in the worst possible example, the obvious cases that we all know about perhaps it is justified. But the danger is the over use and misuse of the word for good guys that lose.

    I prefer tomato can. Or “pudding” is a good description of an out of shape time waster. There’s been a whole lot of puddings fighting in the HW division for too long, projected into big fights just because they are close in size to the house fighter. But they’re just puddings. They don’t want to win because they know it’s a lost cause.
     
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  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Simmie Black was a memorable bum from the 1980s. He lost about 100 times at least and learned a few tricks along the way. He usually was stopped or took a dive after a few rounds. He fought under false names so no one knows how many times he fought. He even stole the identities of amateur boxers so he could fight with a clean record. This messed up the amateur status of those guys but Simmie needed his pay cheque and boxing commissions were clamping down on bums who were hoping to get knocked out every week, so Simmie didn't care.
    He also used the identities of dead boxers. Simmie didn't care.
    He was a real character and an absolute bum.
    He was later convicted of sexual assault.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I sometimes call them Ham and Eggers,I picked it up from some US boxing mag ,it seems somewhat kinder than saying BUM
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes this would be a great candidate. American pro Boxing is littered at the very very bottom with these kinds of characters. But as somebody said before these won’t be TV fights. Small hall semi licensed stuff that nobody cares about.
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Rocky Balboa :
    "It's just that you see I fight in clubs you know. I'm really a ham-and-egger and this guy's the best. It wouldn't be such a good fight."
     
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes that’s better. But Unforgiven has a point about these imposters at the very very dregs of professional boxing That are actual liberty takers. And there should be a distinction for the “non effort” types compared to actual half capable professional losers. Is a “ham and egger” a non-effort “pudding” type?

    What percentage are these awful imposters though? The real bogus ones that nobody would book twice? 1%? 1.5%?
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If he thinks the term is justified he is perfectly entitled to use it ,we all have our own foibles and criteria.
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Here are my definitions in rank order.

    Champions
    Contenders
    Prospect
    Journey men (former prospect Or old champ selling his name. A step up. but testing up and comers)
    “Opponent” (not supposed to win but capable)
    Ham and egger (part timer and limited)
    Pudding (non effort)
    Bum (basically an imposter)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I often use the term "set up" but that's relative to the quality of the fighter he's a set-up for.
    A boxer who fought a lot of set ups is basically fighting men several levels below himself, so set-up isn't an exact absolute level itself.
    One man's set-up might be a tough test for another man.

    Bums are literally bums. They take dives, make no effort and don't train. They disgrace the sport. They don't mind losing, they hate training.

    Stiffs are similar to bums. They don't fight back but some of them might just be too inept to get started. Stiffs might actually be fit and trained but they just aren't capable of fighting back.
    Stiffs aren't as bad as bums but they might still take a dive when given half a chance.
    Stiffs are suspect.
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Opponent/ ham and egger. He’s a famous ham and egger.

    Jones is still above a pudding and above the imposters. Because Those are the only guys he can beat now.
     
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Hasn’t it got a lot to do with matchmaking though? A guy from one level knowing he’s overmatched can put out the non effort of a pudding/stiff because he’s overmatched. A bum performance if you like. So this definition may be a state of mind rather than an actual species.

    Other guys, again knowing they are overmatched, will tell you they are only going to train enough to get half fit and go through the motions hoping to get through it defensively. It’s not career suicide to last a fair few rounds. They won’t necessarily fight like that if they think they can win. It’s just their prerogative.

    But the guys who can’t box won’t box won’t train and somehow get into a ring ....that nobody would book twice, those guys are not real boxers. And the actual bums. They are bums because they are not legit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018