According to Pep, chins don't get better with age

'The main thing to understand is this; a punch you get hit with when you are only 25 won't bother you. But when you get hit with the same punch when you're over 30, it will knock you down. And when you're 35 years old it will knock you out.'

- Willie Pep



Thoughts? Some people insist that a boxer's chin can somehow get better with age and I never understood this logic.

I think if a very young boxer is 19 for instance, they're still growing and can "fill out" until they reach their peaks in terms of strength/speed/endurance etc at 25-28 years of age and then they plateau. Once an athlete is around 32-34, the overall athletic decline begins no matter how well you train and take care of yourself.

 

I think Willie Pep is correct however a boxers improving ability to defend and relax makes a substantial contribution and so does his mindset on the night.

 

It seems like some have, like Ali's. This could have more to do with the weight he put on though.

 

What makes you say that Ali's chin got better with age?

 

He tanked much more, from bigger punchers, in the 70s without going down compared to the 60s where he was getting rattled by fighters like Sonny Banks, Cooper and even Doug Jones at times.

 

Sometimes a good punch is just a good punch. It was Emile Griffith who knocked down Dick Tiger and he wasn’t a big puncher. Reacting to a punch doesn’t always indicate that much it’s very hard to be solemn faced when anyone hits you it might’ve been Muhammad Ali learnt to relax as he got older as his peer Geroge Foreman did.

 

Pep is on to something.
But there's other factors involved.
for instance. The ability to anticipate
And ride a punch would be much better
in a younger fighter who's reflexes are
sharp, than an older fighter.
(See Roy Jones Jr for example)
Did Jones Jr's chin suddenly get worse as he aged?
Or did his super human reflexes hide a weakness that was there all along?
Did Ali's chin get better as he put on muscle and matured. Or did his awareness of distance from opponents become more mature as he aged, and though he still clowned, he knew when to, and NOT to do it?
Personally I don't believe a fighters ability to take a punch gets better with age. Or gets worse.
What you're born with, is what you have.
But other factors, like reflexes, and endurance does.
That millisecond ability to reduce the impact from a punch by slipping or riding it when young , becomes a second too slow as the fighter age....
Than disaster....
That's the difference from coming away relatively unscathed, to getting K'OED. A mere second off.

 

There might be something to that. I know myself I recently had a car bump into me from behind and thought it was nothing. But I am 47 and had problems with whiplash for 6 months that I’m just getting over. No way that would have bothered me in my 20s or 30s.

I also learned while doing physio if you get whiplash your neck muscles shut down for some reason and become weak, that’s why you have to strengthen the neck back up with special exercises. If you don’t do that your neck will stay in a weakened state and you can hurt yourself worse if something happens to you like whiplash.

 

All other things being equal, i.e. if the boxer stays the same size, I agree with Pep.

However, if a fighter adds mass in the right way, I.e. thicker core muscles and neck, their punch resistance in absolute terms can increase post their 20's.

Obviously other factors, such as cumulative damage, also play a substantial part.

 

After getting ko'd by Marciano Louis said," he hits harder than Schmeling, he kod me with only a few punches but I was young then,you can take more when you are younger."

 

Muhammad Ali and especially George Forman prove this isn't always the case. They both grew considerably in durability with age, for whatever reason. Foreman always had a good chin, but he was knocked down and severely hurt by Lyle, knocked out by Ali. Old Foreman was an absolute tank. I'm not convinced that ANY of the shots that ever knocked him or Ali down would have knocked old George down. His face would get messed up, but he never seemed hurt. And that 19 shot flurry to the face he took from Holyfield was insane.

And toward the end there, Ali managed to stay upright after Shavers landing multiple perfect bombs, managed to stay upright with Holmes just teeing off on him with no response. To say nothing of the insane number of body shots he took from Foreman.

Other guys of course went the other way. Mercer, Holyfield, and Cobb's chins finally cracked.

And other guys just stayed consistent. Holmes's chin never got better or worse -- he tanked some rough shots in his early 30's, and he tanked some rough shots in his late 40's. Floyd Mayweather's chin never got better or worse. Etc.

 

I've always thought Roy's reflexes hid the weak chin he had all along.

 

I think you need to read Pep's quote again. He hadn't even reached his prime when he fought Banks, Cooper, and Doug and was still growing and under the age of 25.

 

I think chins can certainly become worse over time. If you get brutally KOd even once, it can reduce your overall endurance and ability to take shots. The more you get KOd, the more likely it'll happen again.

 

I disagree.

Ali got better at rolling with punches, anticipating them, and took defense more seriously and stopped playing around with dangerous punchers after Cooper gave him a wake up call. Ali survived the body punches from Foreman through sheer willpower. As a side note, Norton said Ali had a remarkably tough body that made him feel like he was punching a tire (probably all the running, jump rope, sit ups, etc).

As for Shavers, he wasn't just landing bomb after bomb on Ali's jaw for 15 rounds. Ali actually dodged, rolled, or anticipated many of those shots and braces himself which makes a HUGE difference. Shavers also admitted he made the mistake of thinking Ali was faking it when he had him hurt and hesitated.

Foreman stated emphatically Lyle hit him harder than any opponents in either of his careers. His chin did not get better, he got better at pacing himself, relaxing, conserving energy, and defense.

Ali didn't knock Foreman down until after he punched himself out and took like 50 right hand leads and flurries to the jaw. Before the 5th round Foreman wasn't even phased by Ali's power and tanked punches to the head with contempt. It was exhaustion, the muggy heat, and Ali's grappling and rope a door tricks that led to his decreased punch resistance.