Adam Pollack's Dempsey Book?

Wills looks disappointing on film and doesn't show the type of power you'd we're expecting, at least in his filmed fights. Dempsey did his best work vs.bigger / slower fighters as they were easier for him to hit. I'm not saying Wills was that slow, but I don't see speed as one of the things that made him tough to beat.

What makes you think Wills would beat Dempsey?

 

Interesting,I think Dempsey stops Wills and beats Greb by dec.

 

I'm interested in the reasoning as well, because stylistically I think a Dempsey Wills match favors Dempsey. Wills may have been diminished in the filmed fights of him, but I'm sure his style wasn't much different. He seems made to order for Dempsey. I also believe despite being dropped against Firpo- Dempsey performance is far more electric and impressive against Firpo

 

Wills was bigger than Dempsey, stronger than Dempsey and a terrific infighter/bodypuncher. He could box and brawl, was more experienced, and in his prime he was much faster and hit harder than what we see on film of him. The footage we have of him is from a time period after he suffered broken hands bad enough that they nearly forced his retirement. After that every time he fought he had to preserve his hands. Watch the guys that bothered Dempsey, they made him pay on the way in and tied him up on the inside. Wills would have been doing that with the added bonus of dishing out brutal body punishment on the inside while incapacitating Dempsey. Watch how much trouble Dempsey has with the strength of Firpo (the only thing Firpo had) and then watch how Wills handles Firpo like a baby in the clinches. Wills was bigger, stronger, hit harder and a better boxer than the Bill Brennan who gave Dempsey all he could handle in Dempsey's prime. Watch how Gibbons, a guy who three years earlier weighed 162, effectively tied Dempsey up. You think a 6'2" 210-220 pound ex stevedore used to hauling around hundreds of pounds of cargo all day every day wouldnt be able to do better? I just think its an uphill battle for Dempsey. Dempsey has a punchers chance which makes him dangerous at all times and he carried his power late which is a huge bonus. But Wills fought 20 rounders against tough, hard hitting competition. I think by the time he hit his stride he was too experienced to favor a guy over him just based on punching power. I think Wills was the more complete fighter, bigger, and Dempsey couldnt exactly get careless either because like Dempsey Wills could knock a guy out to the head and body so he was dangerous as well.

 

Watch how Dempsey picks up the 216lbs Firpo like he is a pillow. Granted what film we have of Wills is of a past prime fighter but was he that much more dynamic in his prime? He looks slow and one paced against Firpo, and he was 32 then, hardly ancient.

 

Interesting observations. I just watched a colorized version of Dempsey vs Brennan on youtube. must say i usually don't favor colorized version of classic fights but it enhanced the viewing experience for me in this case. I do notice how Dempsey gets tied up by Brennan and they seem to be pretty equal in strength. Slight edge to Dempsey who begins to push Brennan around a little. I could see your point, I would imagine Wills to be bigger and much stronger than Brennan and i know in fighting was his game from the Fulton bout and others. He seemed to be a grabber that would then attack the body. However on the flip side, Wills is very straight up in the footage we have of him, and Uzcudon with his jerky movement caught him wide open flush. Dempsey was a lot quicker, very explosive, I could see his style creating openings on Wills relatively easily. Dempsey feinting in the pocket and then launching his explosive attack, then Wills grabbing and tying up and having his turn. Fascinating bout that should of happened.

 

During Dempsey's reign what were Wills best wins?

 

usually Dempsey leftovers. Norfolk probably outside of that. Langford was ancient.

 

Wills was 35 when he fought Firpo (boxrec has the wrong date for his bday) and had been fighting professionally for at least 13 years and at that point suffered from chronically bad hands, meaning he couldnt go all out and had to fight more conservatively. Even then he staggered Firpo with a jab and easily defeated him. Dempseys win may have been more exciting but he was also dropped three times in the process by a guy he had no business even getting hit by, so crude was Firpo. Im not sure when Dempsey picked Firpo up like a pillow, unless you mean after the fight because while they were still fighting Dempsey had his hands full trying match Firpo for strength. Wills had no such issue and was well known to be enormously strong even for his size from his years unloading cargo on the docks of New Orleans and later New York. The bottom line is I was asked to compare Dempsey and Wills prime for prime, not the 1920 Dempsey with a 35 year old Wills that still had enough left to dominate Firpo or the 38 year old Wills who lost to Uzcudan.

 

All right. I consider this a classic Klompton reply. Full of data, but from a I'm right, you're 15th point of view that would leave the Joe average boxing fan numb to reply.

Experience wouldn't matter much by the time Dempsey had the title. I'd argue Dempsey was at his best just after winning the title. I'd strike that point.

Wills looks pretty suspect vs. Firpo, a fighter you correctly think was among the worst heavyweights to challenge for a title shot. Yet you say look how Wills handled him in a distance fight, where his vaulted power only floored Firpo once who was a defensively poor fighter with lousy balance. Dempsey floored a better vision of Fripo 7 times in two rounds. The difference in power and the ability to land it seems pretty clear here. You can say Willis hurt his wrist 5 months before this fight. IMO that's enough time to heal. What about the other hand? Dempsey floors guys often with his right and had a really good left hook too.

Wills didn't look good in a match with Madden before, which unless I'm confusing Madden with someone else is on film. Wills was ho hum here at age 32. Did his power and sudden evaporate by the time he was 32? I don't see this bodywork you're talking about, it's probably off film vs. way past their prime versions of famous fighters. Or the other side of the coin, if he landed body shots, it didn't bother Firpo much. Did Wills ever a stop a man in ring magazine's top ten, which debuted in 1924?

In this match up, Dempsey has a big time speed and power edge. I also think Dempsey is the tougher fighter. Wills quickly pulled a no mas vs. Jim Battling Johnson, surrendering in one round after an injured risk. He didn't fight Godfey. Godfrey's manager tired to make this match several times.

Now for some not some well know facts. Wills and his manager Paddy Mullins choose not to fight and thus eliminate any of his leading rivals including Tommy Gibbons, Billy Miske, Georges Carpentier, Jim Maloney, Harry Greb, Young Stribling, and Jack Delaney, none of whom drew the color line. Even Gene Tunney offered in 1925 Wills declined!

Conclusion: Wills avoided the best black and white fighters around while Dempsey was champion, but yes he deserved a match with Dempsey. Question. If Dempsey wasn't champ do you honestly think Wills should want the match? Not unless he was getting a career purse.

Soruce: [url]https://fightfilmcollector.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-trouble-with-harry-harry-wills-vs.html[/url]

Early in 1922 when Wills was at his best ( Age 29 ) , he battled to a draw vs Jack Dempsey's sparing partner Big Bill Tate over 10 rounds. Tate had a listed record of 21 24 2.

I've seen you talk about a guy with inflated KO Records. Might Wills qualify? I think so...

Years later when Wills was 34 ( and past it ) , Jack Sharkey showed a vast difference in speed and skills, and according to the news even hit harder.

 

I agreed Wills was past prime when he fought those guys.
Wasn't the partially sighted Langford past prime for many of his fights with Wills?
Wasn't Jeannette past prime too?

GunBoat Smith?

Denver Ed Martin?

Dempsey picks up the out of it Firpo after the fight like he was nothing. Wills dropped Firpo ,employing a move he used in other fights hitting him as they broke.
Dempsey should have fought Wills no question,and I think it would have added to his stature, because I think he crushes Wills. Tragic that we never got to find out.

 

Dempsey!

 

Careful M,if Robespierre takes you out, that only leaves me!

 

There will a lot of happy folks the day I am KO'd!!!!!!