Adrian Broner: The Flawed Afro-American Style

no one said margarito is a sweet scientist, what ever that means.

and roach never watched floyd before?

 

OK, with that much exposure, I still can't see how you can group the guys you grouped and provide the examples you provided. :huh The facts, even without your examples, don't bear out. A counter puncher can fight offensively if he runs into a guy with a suspect offense/power. A pressure fighter, if he runs into a better pressure fighter, CANNOT fight off of his back foot and win. He just digs in and fights harder. Less dimensions. Again, I am NOT knocking pressure fighting.

See, now you are changing it up! :nono This is NOT a question about results. This is a question about dimensions/skills. Margo has but one dimension. He is still damned skilled and effective.

Since when has Margo faced top level opposition and been known for landing a jab? :huh Margo out FOUGHT guys with volume and pressure. Anyway, why do you keep coming out on this "can't Box" stuff?

Margo is a HUGE WW. What fight has Clottey, Williams, or any other huge WW been lumped up in? When Mosley cracked his chin Margo didn't bust up. That may be a matter of collagen not skills. Only thing that I can ever remember cutting Margo is a headbutt, but I could be mistaken.

The man has a marathon motor. Margo is honestly one of the most conditioned fighters in the game. I personally feel that this may be one of the reasons he was tapped after his long lay off. Margo hawks guys down with his gas tank, not fancy foot work.

Margo throws a ton of varied shots and has a mean uppercut when he is inside. He has offense. We know. Then you use the Pac fight? He only landed those shots when Pac shelled up, briefly. He towered over Pac! He should have been able to lean over a shelled up Pac and bang him around he guard with those long arms. Also, if his jab was so wonderful and punch selection so vast, like you said, he should have been able to pick Pac apart at range. Why couldn't he? He doesn't have the dimensions.

Who said that? It does take skill. However, even at his level, if a guy is a counter puncher? He has more dimensions. Doesn't mean he can beat Margo.

I am saying you are wrong (and totally changing your original point on us ESB morons). You also seem to be very emotionally invested in making that point and it is clouding your reasoning and examples. Nobody is saying pressure fighters don't deserve tons of respect and aren't skilled. We are also saying what Broner was doing was NOT effective counter punching.

The whole problem with your reasoning is in the "test" for each style when opportunity presents itself. The counter punchers can switch into offensive mode. The pressure fighters can't switch into pure boxer counter punching mode. So therefore... The counter punchers have more depth/dimensions. To become a counter puncher you have to FIRST learn to be effective offensively. The same cannot be said for offensive fighters. Moving forward, never giving ground, and keeping your hands moving is Boxing 101. Counter Punchers are just more technical. Why do you insist on taking this as an almost personal attack? You from a family of pressure fighters?

Getting back to your ORIGINAL point, if the (Slick) African/Black American style is so ineffective and one dimensional why are so many weight classes where Blacks are able to make weight and not in competition with the NFL/NBA dominated and/or disproportionately loaded with guys who employ said style?

 

I like how you smooth ignored all of the rebuttal to your argument. :yep

 

You have a point, but you are also not giving any credit to the freakish nature of Paul Williams. In that fight Paul showed another dimension. Looking at the lay of the land he took off his Brawler hat and Boxed. This is a test of how technical or how many dimensions a guy has.

Margarito when faced with a tall Boxer (Williams) got low and came forward. OK. When faced with a similar sized Counter Puncher (Clottey)? He got low, came forward, and threw a million shots. When faced with a short Boxer (Cotto)? He got low, came forward, and threw a million shots. When faced with an even shorter Boxer Puncher (Pac)? He got low, came forward, and threw a million shots. It shows an obvious deficiency in the style.

Now I would never sit here and say, "the Mexican style of Boxing is one dimensional and ineffective". Why? There are great examples of guys who are warriors who hop on their back foot and get busy, Morales, Marquez. Somehow it is cool to group a bunch of Black fighters who fight nothing like raw, but physically talented, Broner and bash them and "Black American Boxing". These cats kill me!

 

Oh for sure. Not comparing Margarito to any of the great technical pressure fighters. Watch how JCC ran my boy Macho out of the ring.


I dont think very highly of Margarito, doesnt mean I dont respect the skills of guys like JCC, Marciano, Morales(although he was talented enough to fight in any style he wanted ala boxing the **** out of Pacquiao).

 

Gotta agree with this. Good way to instantly label yourself an idiot.

"Afro-American style" :rofl WTF is that? Got more holes than swiss cheese.

 

What is that style? I'm full of ****? Where is the explanation, Rain Man?

 

Forum ******s mistook what race baiters like Bernard Hopkins ENCODED by saying "style" which was a direct reference to "GREATER ATHLETICISM." Not a style. Dumb mother****ers. Just another six month trend in geekville brought on by a series of interviews or "check hook" type reference made on a broadcast or unearthed episode of 'Legendary Nights.' ****ing lemmings. Get it right at least.

 

There are better examples of brawlers than Margarito like 135lb-first Duran fight, Castillo vs Mayweather, Frazier-Ali, and on and on. For those of you that call yourself experts, THINK. For all the great, skillful, slick, African American style as you call it they have all been beaten for the most part, not vs a style that you say is "superior", but to one that is the opposite or contradicts that style. Just like great "slick" boxers have won vs brawlers, brawlers have about as many wins over the slick style as well. To be able to brawl you must have tremendous physical condition as any slick fighter would. That is why they are termed "brawlers" and not boxers. Just because a fighter employs a slick style does not have to make him a defensive wizard like Floyd or Whitaker. To me Broner, Judah, and Alexander all use a slick style; low guard, quick hands and feet, alot of head movement; that they are not so successful at it defensively is another story. Basically holes were found in their defense. Brawlers do have skill. Margarito's might be limited, but with that limited skill he was able to hurt Pacman badly with a body shot and was able to land acouple of jabs. Highly skilled brawlers like Duran knew when to cut off the ring to corner and subdue his opponents. Tszyu perfectly timed Judah despite not being a slick fighter or a brawler. Like I said before, it's not the styles that are flawed, but the fighters. There will never be one style to dominate the rest. Never.

 

Calling it one dimensional was clever. Calling a niche category of Black fighters for the whole group when we've had and have guys like Tim Bradley, Mike Tyson, Shane Mosley, Joe Frazier, Jermain Taylor, Hank Armstrong, Jeff Lacy, Evander Holyfield, Ray Robinson, Iran Barkley, Marvin Hagler, Meldrick taylor, ect, ect, ect, ect, ect, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, is mind numbing. In a nutshell.

 

One thing is for certain; De Leon beat Broner. Sorry he was cheated by the criminal judges.

 

They don't. Let me stop you there.