Advice for helping novice in training for S&C

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by juice20, Jun 18, 2018.


  1. juice20

    juice20 Active Member Full Member

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    This may be long winded. Apologies in advance.

    My brother in law has been training for boxing for some time. He has had one amateur fight, which I commend him for getting in there. His skills are not bad, he has decent foot work, judges distance relatively well, and is relatively technical....this all of course is said with his current level and experience being generously considered. However, the guy has never been an athlete his entire life until he decided to take this sport up, and it shows. I have tried to stress to him the importance of building a foundation of explosive strength, strength endurance, and general physicality in order to help him improve as an athlete, and to aid in better employing the skills he is learning at his club.

    So, I have wrote him a very simple program to help with that. What I need is some input from members here who may be S&C coaches, have a Kin background etc. I have 23 years of lifting under my belt...6 spent primarily for sports performance while I was a scholarship athlete/ still competing, with direction from S&C coaches at both the collegiate and major sports leagues levels. And then the rest has been of the bodybuilding persuasion, which absolutely does not apply here. Sources of learning/knowledge acquisition have been primarily other athletes (while still one), friends who coach athletes, friends who compete in physique type industries, personal experience, and then the works of Poliquin, Rippetoe, Cressey, Thibodeau, Rusin and the like. So while having some intermediate level knowledge, I am in no way an expert, and would like input on what I prepped for him from guys like Dealt and others.

    Considering that he has never resistance trained, ever, I tried to keep it simple. The thought is to build some basic foundation of strength and explosiveness without making it too drastic, and thus easier to stick with.

    Strength work is a basic 5x5, with 2-3 warm up/feeler sets. He'd do mon/wed/fri for frequency. I figure 6 weeks would be a good timeframe to reassess where he is at.

    Day 1- Squats 5 sets of 5 reps, Push Press 5 sets of 5 reps, Plyo push ups 3 sets of 6-10 reps

    Day 2 - Deadlift 5 sets of 5 reps, Chin Ups 5 sets of max reps (i'm guessing a handful at most), Broad jumps 3 sets 4-6 reps

    Day 3- Skip 5-10 mins, Bounds 3 sets of 10 total, Med ball pass against wall 3 sets of 6 reps, kettlebell swing 3 sets of 6 reps, isometric wall punch 3 sets of 10 seconds per arm

    Anyways, advice, tips, changes, additions or simply tearing it apart are all welcome.
     
  2. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    What's the general goal here?
     
  3. juice20

    juice20 Active Member Full Member

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    A general introduction to the benefits of training and how it can impact your performance. Without being excessive for a complete novice who has never trained, and is very underdeveloped physically.
     
  4. JagOfTroy

    JagOfTroy Jag Full Member

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    If he's gonna compete, sending him in there without making him learn to push himself is like sending off a soldier to war with no bullets in his gun.

    Who is teaching him boxing technique? That coach should be the one that knows and directs his training, in and out of the gym.
     
  5. juice20

    juice20 Active Member Full Member

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    I totally understand where you're coming from. This is more of a situation where it is a pastime at this point. I have doubts there will be any more amateur bouts coming. Even so, it seems that there is no direction concerning S&C, which would benefit this individual, even done on their own time. Both in the sports performance aspect, and simply in general.
     
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  6. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    What's his height, weight, and bodyfat % (estimate)?
     
  7. JagOfTroy

    JagOfTroy Jag Full Member

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    That's because if he isn't being shown proper technique by a real coach, all the conditioning in the world is not going to make him win a fight. Same reason a skinny guy with basic understanding of principles can floor a body builder. He will still have poor technique, weaknesses, openings, lack of understanding being in a fight or making adjustments. People still get knocked down and broken noses even in training environments.
     
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  8. juice20

    juice20 Active Member Full Member

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    I see what you are getting at, and all that goes without saying because it is basic and true.....but this is not what we are discussing. He is being taught technique and it's why he goes, because he enjoys it. He isn't going to pursue fighting beyond the training aspects and sparring occasionally. I think his one bout was a one off. But who knows. It is an irrefutable fact that strength and conditioning aids your athletic performance. It helps you better employ (to varying degrees) the skills you are learning and drilling. If you resembled screech from saved by the bell, I dont care how much technique you learn, you're more likely to fit in and be a threat at the methadone clinic, than in a sporting competition. We're trying to fight off the screechism and help a guy who could use some basic physicality.
     
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  9. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    That looks pretty good. However I think it’s a bit too plyo focused for a relative beginner. Getting a solid foundation of strength will ensure he gets more out of plyos and will be more injury resistant. They’ve done research comparing strength training to plyo/power training in beginners and the strength group improved power to a greater extent.
    He would already get a good amount of plyometric training in his boxing training.
    Getting strong and coordinated in the slow lifts will really benefit his balance, body control and movement efficiency. For an unathletic or untrained person lifting weights is the single best thing they can do for increasing athleticism.
    Personally I would start with a general strength block then progress to incorporating some resistance training circuits with low impact plyos for endurance.
     
  10. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    A boxing coach is almost the last person I’d trust for physical preparation. It would likely be something along the lines of do push ups and sit ups every day, and run 10km every morning. If he can’t do it then he don’t got it and/or he just needs to try harder.
    A boxing coach should be in charge of technique and tactics, and if he’s really competent then maybe some conditioning work.
     
  11. juice20

    juice20 Active Member Full Member

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    Thanks for responding.

    Yes, I was hesitant to include full blown plyos and even the minimum iso work...hence why I wanted a little input. So likely just go with day 1 and day 2 twice a week or alternating in a mon/wed/fri scenario.
     
  12. JagOfTroy

    JagOfTroy Jag Full Member

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    Guess I've just been fortunate enough to meet very good coaches.
    They may not understand everything about everything but they know how to condition a fighter to fight.

    Not to mention, the responsibility falls on the shoulders of the fighter to direct his own training cause your support squad isn't going to be there with you every day.
     
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  13. JagOfTroy

    JagOfTroy Jag Full Member

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    I'd rather be hit by a guy with no technique than screech who understands how to snap his punches for an effective pop. He may not be able to damage a fly but that sharp sting will get your attention pretty quickly.

    Based on your initial post, you made it sound like this guy was a competitor instead of just a hobby.

    The slow-titch fiber workouts you have setup for him does not respond well in boxing. Even if he gets in shape from it, he will be slow&tight from having too much focus on it. You can incorporate some but that shouldn't be the bulk.
     
  14. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    Maybe because it’s not hard to get an unfit person a bit fit by shouting at them and getting them to huff and puff. If you learn technique you learn how to conserve your energy so it’s likely that it’s largely that rather than getting someone seriously fit.

    When it comes to getting someone strong and powerful, and properly fit they wouldn’t have the slightest idea.
     
  15. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

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    How do you figure that squats, deadlifts, push presses and plyos are ‘slow twitch fibre workouts’?
    Lifting weights two or three times a week isn’t much at all, and why would you have to stop boxing training at the same time?
     


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