Aethetics don't win fights....and Calzaghe is still 45-0

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Biff_McBiff, Apr 25, 2008.


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  1. Biff_McBiff

    Biff_McBiff New Member Full Member

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    Jun 11, 2006
    No matter what anyone has to say about Joe Calzaghe's flawed technique or frustrating tactics, he remains, undefeated.

    Is he the best pound for pound fighter at 168 or 175 active today? I don't think so.

    The Hopkins fight demonstrated what Calzaghe's strengths are. As unorthodox as his punching technique is (and make no mistake, it is not pretty to watch) he simply outworks his opponent. He's also smart and disciplined enough (not to mention a superbly conditioned athlete) to be able to modify/fashion/implement a fight plan on the fly while defensively limiting his opponents strengths. Make no mistake, these are all skills most boxers should value and envy, they just aren't as obvious or as beautiful to behold as a blazing, technically sound and unusual five-punch combination.

    Calzaghe's more lunch pail than art, more heart than technique. But the stubborn fact remains, he is undefeated.

    What is clear about Joe Calzaghe is that he has never taken a fight he knew he couldn't win (whether it was geograghy or the limits of age or skill). His career has always been cautiously handled and probably will remain so. But make no mistake, obsessive and calculated careerism doesn't translate into pound for pound greatness.

    All we heard from Calzaghe after the Hopkins fight is Roy Jones, who should never fight again, but most likely will. Is Roy old enough yet?

    Joe the Legend Killer will beat a diminished Roy Jones. No doubt about it (why else would he even discuss it). Besides, Antonio Tarver is much too young and only a semi-legend. Chad Dawson, nope....not enough money fighting a young non-legend with way too much skill who might end up pulling the covers on a legend killer.

    Joe just needs to go home and wait for Dawson to turn 43. I'm willing to bet that a spry Calzaghe at 54 could easily outpoint him.
     
    Biff_McBiff, Apr 25, 2008
    Biff_McBiff, Apr 25, 2008
    #1
  2. Bodysnatcher

    Bodysnatcher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    edit
     
    Bodysnatcher, Apr 25, 2008
    Bodysnatcher, Apr 25, 2008
    #2
  3. Atritionist

    Atritionist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pavlik the cure for Calzaghe? I would agree
     
    Atritionist, Apr 25, 2008
    Atritionist, Apr 25, 2008
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  4. elgrancampeon

    elgrancampeon Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Pavlik would be in for a beating if this fight happens. MARK MY WORDS!
     
    elgrancampeon, Apr 25, 2008
    elgrancampeon, Apr 25, 2008
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  5. morsey

    morsey Member Full Member

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    Sorry did you not watch the Lacy/Kessler fights?!
     
    morsey, Apr 26, 2008
    morsey, Apr 26, 2008
    #5
  6. Biff_McBiff

    Biff_McBiff New Member Full Member

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    Jun 11, 2006
    Yup. Saw both fights. Neither Kessler nor Lacy possess Dawson's talent or athletic ability.

    Kessler, while technically sound and skilled, is a one dimensional straight-up European style boxer puncher. His style was predictable and fairly easy for Calzaghe's swarming hook/slap/hold tactics to solve. Calzaghe figured out Kessler's style long before they ever stepped into the ring and efficiently implemented his fight plan. Kessler did what he does and no more.

    Lacy, despite his bloated record and respectable punching power, simply was not skilled enough to keep Calzaghe off him. Calzaghe saw what Lacy's strength was and quickly nullified it by smothering him from the first round on. Lacy had no answer and his skill level and experience was exposed in a fairly easy Calzaghe victory.
     
    Biff_McBiff, Apr 26, 2008
    Biff_McBiff, Apr 26, 2008
    #6
  7. sonny73

    sonny73 Active Member Full Member

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    haha the way things are going Calzaghe will destroy all the so called great names of American boxing and yanks are finding it so hard to swallow
     
    sonny73, Apr 26, 2008
    sonny73, Apr 26, 2008
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  8. Stickandmove

    Stickandmove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Who is the best then? Dawson? Tarver? Hopkins? Roy Jones? Glen Johnson? Pavlik (if he moves up)?
     
    Stickandmove, Apr 26, 2008
    Stickandmove, Apr 26, 2008
    #8
  9. headhunter

    headhunter Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Dawson and Tarver are the only two fighters apart from hopkins between 160-175 who could give Calzaghe a fight.The only chance Pavlik would have is if the fight was made at 160 and Calzaghe was weight drained to ****.
     
    headhunter, Apr 26, 2008
    headhunter, Apr 26, 2008
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  10. sambob

    sambob Active Member Full Member

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    Biff i'm glad you're trying to analyze things, but you're just dead wrong in many respects.

    If Calzaghe figured Kessler out so easily, why did he not take control of the fight until the second half? He won that fight by adjusting. The style he used to beat Hopkins wouldn't have worked on Kessler. Calzaghe fought Kessler in a different way.

    Tarver is 39 years old.

    This is not what happened in the Hopkins fight. Hopkins limited JOE's strength, very well. He lowered Calzaghe's work rate by 30%-40%. Also instead of Joe firing good jabs, quick straight lefts, and powerful right hooks and then the occasionally flurry of weak arm punches, the ONLY thing Calzaghe could do was land those flurries of arm punches. Hopkins's work rate was not any lower than it usually is, he as able to land his shots.... he did as well as he could have. The fight was never going to go in Hopkins's favor, as stylistically someone his age just cannot compete with someone landing so MANY punches - even though they were completely ineffective.

    Bloated record? Lacy was only 21-0 when he fought Calzaghe!! If HIS record as bloated, then that just further proves how bad Calzaghe's opposition has been. Lacy's victories before fighting Calzaghe were mainly over people that Calzaghe had already fought, many of which are consdered to be Calzaghe's best victories. So if you are saying Lacy hadnt fought anyone good, then Calzaghe's record is BULL****, and the only even GOOD fighters he's ever fought are Kessler and Hopkins. And remember that Kessler is still sort of a wild card. He's looked impressive, but the only real known name on his record is Calzaghe himself!

    Calzaghe is NOT the 'legend killer'. FIRST of all Calzaghe does not believe Hopkins is a legend. So that shoots that idea down before it even takes off. But even in the real world (the Calzaghe's sort of live in dream-land), Calzaghe isn't a legend killer. Beating Bernard by decision, and not landing any effective punches throughout the entire fight... is not 'killing' someone. To be a "legend killer" he would have had to either dominate Hopkins, or knock him out. And probably just knock him out.

    Even knocking out Jones Jr would not make him a legend killer. Jones still has the potential to be a dangerous fighter that is if he was willing to take offensive risks again and actually try to hurt his opponents..... but regardless of that, Jones is NOT the same fighter he was before being knocked out by Tarver. Look how he even fought Trinidad! Trinidad is NOT a puncher at light heavy, yet Jones still fought 100% safety first and never tried to put Trinidad away even though he hurt Trinidad multiple times, even knocking him down!

    Beating Jones right now may look good to people in the future as they look at boxrec.com in the year 2018, but right now it means little. Many people at 175 could beat Roy now (sad as that is).

    And the funny thing about you saying Tarver is only a semi legend btw (which I guess is your way of implying that Calzaghe IS a legend), Tarver has a better resume than Calzaghe!
     
    sambob, Apr 26, 2008
    sambob, Apr 26, 2008
    #10
  11. mattress

    mattress Boxing Addict Full Member

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    wtf, just because he twice beat a faded RJJ?
     
    mattress, Apr 26, 2008
    mattress, Apr 26, 2008
    #11
  12. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    whats funny is that among Calzaghe's major strengths are his accuracy, his ability to create angles, and his uncanny ability to see his opponent's offence. Hopkins being able to nullify that is a testament to Hopkins' incredible denfence and his own amazing counterpunching abilities.
     
    PH|LLA, Apr 26, 2008
    PH|LLA, Apr 26, 2008
    #12
  13. Biff_McBiff

    Biff_McBiff New Member Full Member

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    Jun 11, 2006
    sambob....I was being sarcastic about Calzaghe being a legend killer and was paraphrasing him in a post-Hopkins fight interview. The Tarver crack (too young)was about Calzaghe's reluctance to fight the best at their prime.

    A major strength of Calzaghe is that he does make adjustments during fights. Agreed. My point in discussing Kessler and Lacy was partially to compare them unfavorably with Chad Dawson, and also because both fighters were being held up as shining examples of Calzaghe's boxing mastery. I didn't think either fighter is in the class of Dawson due to the limitations I noted, although I do think Kessler is far better than Lacy. Additionally, I do think Joe had Kessler figured out....he just wasn't able to impose his will until the middle rounds when his relentless pressure wore Kessler down.

    Lacy's record was bloated as is Calzaghe's....Joe fights once (a 43 YO)in the states and he fancies himself a Legend Killer....he's not....agreed....even if he beats Roy Jones, who is not even close to what he was in his prime. Joe wouldn't be talking him up if he was.

    Joe's got skills...he knows how to win as much as he knows who to fight when and where. But he's not the best at 175, Chad Dawson is. And that's why Joe won't be fighting him anytime soon.

    Joe's got to finish the legend killer tour.
     
    Biff_McBiff, Apr 26, 2008
    Biff_McBiff, Apr 26, 2008
    #13
  14. Primadonna Kool

    Primadonna Kool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Roy Jones is going to Montell Griffin..Joe Calzaghe's ass..!
     
    Primadonna Kool, Apr 26, 2008
    Primadonna Kool, Apr 26, 2008
    #14
  15. skellington

    skellington Bogbrush Full Member

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    Aesthetics
     
    skellington, Apr 26, 2008
    skellington, Apr 26, 2008
    #15
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