After Watching Ali...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, May 22, 2019.



  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    After a healthy 5 fight run of 60s Ali fights I have come to these conclusions

    He was not as hard to hit as made out.
    He was not fundimentally the best fighter.
    The signs were completely there that he was vulnerable to a left hand, Jab and Hook

    Terrell managed to land a lot of both,
    Cooper and Banks dropped him with a hook
    Folley was landing good jabs to the body


    He had blistering speed. And was unothadox as they come, managing to land 4/5 power shots in less than 2 seconds leaving people down and out.
    He was running through the best opposition in a good era.
    He had brilliant timing and taunted his opponents to over reached then landed his offence

    Cleaveland Williams was his best performance

    Thoughts?
     
  2. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    Anything to add? I could've added more but I'm not finished watching all I need of him. I may do a thread like this for Lewis and Klitschko yet
     
  4. emallini

    emallini Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    His mental strength and toughness helped to mask most of the technical weaknesses he had.
     
  5. emallini

    emallini Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I always wonder how he would cope with the elite giants of the last 30 years.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    I think the Terrell fight gives insight into that. His left caused Ali problems, I'd say Lewis would do the same. Bowe and Klitschko could probably do the it as well imo
     
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  7. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Addict booted Full Member

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    Cleveland Williams wouldn't beat 2018 Stiverne.

    if you're going to do an actual study on Ali it's going to take more time then a 5 fight run.

    There's literally not one fight he fought in the 60's I can put him as a favored against anyone in my top 10 head to head.

    Ali of the 60's would not be more effective against most then the early / mid 70's one. He fought better competition in the later era so he gets less credit for losing , but the truth is it became more difficult.
     
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  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    No. Just, no. Williams would've hurt Stiverne. Really, really bad.

    I'm not done and it's just of Ali in the 60s from my own eyes. Basically just trying to get my facts correct on where to have him H2H. I have seen 4 of the five fights I'd watched before anyways, it's actually 6 but given that Liston 2 lasted about a minute I didn't count it.

    I can take this two ways so please bear with me :)

    1) Ali didn't perform good enough in a fight from the 60s, I just cannot co sign that, at least 4 of Ali's top 5 came from the 60s.

    2) not one fighter Ali faced in the sixties beats anyone from your top 10 H2H, I'd be quite interested in trading lists if you are, I can't really agree with that Either, Sonny Liston was a bad man after all.

    By 73 he was already declining, By 75 he was far from the same fighter and had virtually no power at this point. He most definitely faced better competition there but he still beat most of it.
     
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  9. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I invite Senor Pepe to respond. He had the keenest eye on Ali that ever informed this board.
     
  10. emallini

    emallini Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Really?
     
  11. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    All of that may be true, but it is worth mentioning that Chuvalo fought Ali both in the 60s and 70s and noticed a difference in how Ali was as a fighter. He seemed to be more impressed by Ali in the 60s than in the 70s.
     
  12. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    He was pretty hard to hit flush with any consistency ... he was fighting angry against Terrell which may have added to being touch a bit in that fight but he pretty much dominated every minute of 15 rounds. He was never even fundamentally a very good fighter .. his greatness initially surfaced due to extraordinary speed and reflexes, later to slightly better polish combined with an exceptional heart, terrific size, an iron chin and his mystic .. funny but I recently breezed thru the latest HBO doc on him ( a bore w great footage ) and came to the conclusion that he really was so much better pre-exile in his prime, the 66-65 vintage ..
     
  13. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The only part I disagree with is your stance on the era. I personally think it was pretty weak.
     
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  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    I'm just basing it off h2h, I think Folley, Chuvalo, Patterson and Liston would be top 10 today (60 years on) and I think Liston would be undisputed champ. Also Chuvalo beats Wilder imo
     
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  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    It's interesting when you look at these "super heavyweights " today ... Wilder is tall but 220 or so .. Fury is a giant but flabby .. if he every could be in top shape he'd be 235 tops. Who knows what Joshua would be without whatever the hell he takes .. either he is an all time evolutionary species of human being or he's doing something , nor saying illegal but certainly stuff not around in the 70's thru 2000's in the same capacity.

    From the Liston era till today the men have not gotten that much bigger at the championship level if you rationally level it out ..

    Liston was a huge 6'1" with a monster upper body and reach without ever taking any form of supplement or touching a weight .. Today he's be 230 for sure

    Ali, Foreman and Holmes were all 6'3" with high reaches and would have fought in the high 220's and Foreman in the 230's

    Bowe and Lewis started in the 230's ..

    The Klitschko's were tall but thin .. with about 240 and who knows what those guys took .. ?