After Watching Ali...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, May 22, 2019.



  1. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Exactly!!!
     
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  2. cleglue1

    cleglue1 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Great post. I agree Ali of 1974 would be the best Ali for heavyweights today. Even FOTC Ali wouldn't be a better fit, that version of Ali could trade and had faster hands, but he was trading with a small man (Frazier)
     
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  3. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Please feel free to post those fighters records and winning streak themselves bc William's has near 50% of opponents losing in previous fights, these are the fighters your trying to build Ali up on.

    The hard fact for you guys is Alis best actually prime fighter on top level was Karl Mildenberger in the 60's .

    Now compare that fight when you guys are telling everyone that, that Ali would be champion today , even though a past prime List on in a LEGIT one fight win off him was his best win and if posters actually stopped and watched the entire fight they would see it was no easy walk in the park , bc the only fight that was was Cleveland Williams. Lol
     
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali himself thought he was better in the 60's (from 8:25):
    This content is protected
     
  5. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Once again if you read my post I said that Williams winning steak wasn’t against great opposition.
    I wasn’t trying to build him up to be a better opponent than he actually was.
    My point was that despite his lay off and the bullet in him, physically Williams wasn’t the invalid people try to make out, he had another 25 fights after being shot.
    7 years after the Ali fight he even beat Terry Daniels the fight after Daniels lost in a Frazier title defence, not that Daniels was anything special, but my point is Williams was in pretty good condition.
    Look, you don’t particularly rate Ali head to head especially against the big guys of the last 15 years ghat’s fair enough.
    Me, the Ali of ‘67 when he had to stop, would dance rings round them.
    Ali tended to box down to the level of the opposition, when the challenge was in front of him he adjusted and produced the goods.
    It’s also interesting to note the way Usyk is rated by the modernists as a smaller guy who could have a conceivable chance of beating the big guys.
    A man who is a similar size as Ali with similar traits, but they dismiss Ali.
     
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  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali was 210-212 for his best performances in the 60's (Liston I, Patterson I and Terrell) and 212-216 for his best ones in the 70's (Frazier I and II, Foreman), so he only put on a modest amount of weight. The very least you'd expect someone to put on going from his early/mid 20's to late 20's/early 30's. The notion that this would be any kind of game changer in a positive sense for a fighter whose style relied on his speed and movement is a bit far fetched, to say the least.

    That's the easy part imo. How he would against the big guys of today? Very hard to say. I do believe he'd find it harder.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
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  7. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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    Up to cooper Ali had only had 19 professional fights and was reasonably green clowning thinking he was invincible ect like a fighter in his early twenties can be and got tagged , what it did show was his capacity to take a punch and recuperative powers which we would see on many occasions later on. after that he got up meant business and sorted him out.his next fight was a one sided demolition of yes slightly past prime champion in Liston but no means washed up, even being almost blind for a period couldn’t help Liston hit him flush for a knockout, with Ali now aged 22 weighing (210lbs) still green and only 20 fights in, and being very young. As a previous poster said a lot of fighters can take bouts lightly especially when very talented and very young and find it hard to get up for certain fights especially if you think you can win easy and Ali was no exception, especially being such a young champion. Ali wasn’t impossible to hit no fighter is but when on his metal and in with a dangerous opponent he was certainly very hard to hit flush, his last five fights before exile numbers 25 upto 29 were against London, Ali hardly got hit and demolished him, then middleburger not the best but easy win, then Williams never laid a glove on him then demolished, then Earnie of which Ali thoroughly beat him at will, still as hard to hit as any heavyweight has been, then foley another easy win and Ali now only 25 years and 29 fights coming into his prime. .Ali was a reasonably big heavyweight and had to train very hard to get under 220lbs after the age of 25 years old and would walk around about 230lbs when not training, Ali adjusted his weight to suit his opponents ie a smaller and lighter fighter Ali came in lighter or his optimum weight for the opponent , eg 3 years earlier than Zaire in 1971 ALi came in against Frazier at 215 then 226 for Mathis and back down to 220 for Juergen blin in the same year, Alis last fight in 1967 before the 3 yrs off was for folley and Ali weighed 212lbs so looking at the weight range between 67-71 his weight varied between 212-226 up and down so a (REAL PRIME ) Ali could have come in around 220lbs except with no lay off or inactivity and his youth age 27-28 around 1968-69 he would have carried that extra 9lbs at similar speeds to pre exile Ali before his legs regressed, that coupled with his ability to take a punch, recuperative powers, resume, speed, ring iq and will to win ( when as-close prime as we could see him anyway) and what he did in his second career when his best speed and reflexes had diminished is why many people think he his one of if not the greatest heavyweight ever.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019