Agit Kabayel vs prime Luis Ortiz

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by MarkusFlorez99, Jun 2, 2025.


Who wins ?

This poll will close on Feb 27, 2028 at 7:19 AM.
  1. Kabayel

    61.9%
  2. Ortiz

    38.1%
  1. peter_uk

    peter_uk Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ortiz could whack for sure, but Kabayel walked down both Zhang and Makhmudov, showing them no respect and beating out their will to fight with his vicious body assault. In all likelihood he would have done the same to Ortiz.
     
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  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Fair enough, but... beating Joe Joyce twice by stoppage and then brutally KOing Wilder is nothing to sneeze at. Then when you take into consideration, 2 of his losses were razor close, 1 of which he should've won. His record looks a little more impressive, and yes... is a legit contender's record. Because let's be really honest here, who would you pick to beat Zhang even now? Fury does poorly against southpaws, Joshua the moment he goes down, he's concussed, Dubois' defense isn't good enough to avoid getting KTFO, Hrgovic has regressed drastically since they fought, Bakole's gas tank is as bad as Zhang's, Chisora got wobbled and dropped countless times against Parker, Okolie is glass jawed garbage, Anderson, Ajagba, Huni, Wardley, Gassiev, Hunter don't have much of a chance.

    Kabayel beat him, because he's both damned good and had the perfect style to, end of story.

    Now, I don't want to sound like a hypocrite in hyping Frank Sanchez, since I said months out that Kabayel would walk right through him. Also I've been denigrating Sanchez on here for years, calling him a hype job that will lose the moment he faces someone who can cut the ring off effectively. But still, most HW's can't cut the ring off for ****, and Sanchez even now is probably a stylistic nightmare to some even in the Top 10. His win over Ajagba is aging quite nicely. So yeah, I can't stand Sanchez and think he's torture to watch, but a win over him is still decent. Same goes for Makhmudov, sure I was also saying he was a bit of a hypejob, and picked Kabayel to beat him as well. Still, no one had the balls to take the fight to that lumbering twitching Frankenstein's Monster until Agit did, and once he did, he folded like a cheap suit. But as we saw against Vianello, who acquitted himself well against both Torrez and Ajagba, it took a hell of a lot more from a guy like Guido to get him out of there, and that was from a sustained beating, he didn't put him down thrice and legit stop him. So at the very least, Makhmudov is middling and could still probably pick up a win over a guy like Anderson, Yoka, Charr or Pulev. So while no, not a great win, again... it's decent, and Makhmudov is a big puncher, so it took balls of steel, and a solid chin to take that approach.

    So in my opinion, Kabayel is clearly world level, incredibly versatile, adapts exceptionally well and I have a hard time picking against him against anyone other than Usyk. Granted, I've believed in him a lot longer than most people, I even picked him to beat Chisora when he was a nobody. But with his recent spate of wins, I think he's proved more than enough, to at the very least, give him the benefit of the doubt in some of these fantasy match ups. Including against Ortiz, who while I'm a big fan of the Cuban, I have a hard time seeing it go anyway other than how the Zhang match did.
     
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  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Ironically, I picked Agit to beat Chisora, Makhmudov, Sanchez and Zhang, the only guy that's worried me for Agit recently was Smakici. See, because I was a fan of Agron going into the match as well, and I knew who raw brutal power he possessed. Of the 19 KO's in 21 wins, some of them are nasty, especially when he damned near killed and retired Lenroy Thomas. I had a feeling that Agit would take him lightly, not respect the power and walk into something big from a southpaw KO artist. But if anything, that match convinced me that his chin was world class, because Smakici caught him with about 3 rabbit punches to the back of the head flush, then teed off non stop to his temples, cheeks and chin for about 20 seconds with massive knockout shots, to the point where he literally gassed himself out, and Kabayel never legit left his feet. Even then he went into the ropes, it was because Smakici pushed him. Then how did he react to that? He got up, immediately headed right back into the line of fire, without fear and proceeded to beat the **** out of Smakici and almost stop him in the same round. So yeah, not sure why you keep dropping this little nugget of horse****, because it's meaningless, if anything it validates how ****ing great his chin really is.
     
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  4. CroBox29

    CroBox29 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This would be a great fight but I would still choose Kabayel...
     
  5. MarkAntony202

    MarkAntony202 Member Full Member

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    *1893
     
  6. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Doesn't buy hypejobs Full Member

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    For sure...

    I just don't think it changes that his record is on the thin side.

    I can't get behind rating Makh and Sanchez as highly as you do - their accomplishments are very limited.

    Zhang...
    Yes, stopping Joyce at all, let alone twice, demonstrates undeniable power - it being so easy to land on Joyce does make him a much easier win for the rare fighter who actually does have that power... Stopping Wilder who was shot, according to his fans, and was always overrated - likewise a good win, but not a great one.
    You can play the "my aunt had balls" game about the Hrgovic fight if you like, but Hrgovic is crap on cards and the fact that was close (either way) shows just how reliant on a KO Zhang is - and with so few serious fighters beaten, you have to question whether his numbers weren't worse purely because he fought mostly guys that weren't hard to hit?
    Regardless, I just don't think he's quite top top drawer.


    Kabayel is a good fighter, I don't doubt that - I just want to see more evidence of that ability to adapt against genuinely good fighters... I find the evidence a bit lacking at the moment - there's enough to see he's not crap, but not enough to say he's as special as he's getting hyped up to be.

    One aside, I don't really see much of a spate - it's 2 mediocre wins and one good one following over half a decade of poor opponents.

    I want to see more proof.



    Oh and PS... I still voted Kabayel - purely because I think Ortiz did less.
     
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  7. MorvidusStyle

    MorvidusStyle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't like Ortiz but he probably beats Kebabyal.
    Ortiz was pretty dangerous for a while.
    Is Kebabyal really better than someone like Hammer? He would probably have a similar record if he bothered to fight top fighters all these years. Hammer fought Fury, Price, Povetkin, Ortiz and others I can't remember but he wasn't hard to make a fight with.
    Kebabyal beat Chisora then protected his win for ten years.
    Can't wait for him to be splattered and people can shut up about him. Just a shame Zhang wasn't a few years younger because he would have finished what he started with that wild counterpunch Kebabyal blocked with his head.
     
  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Smakici
     
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  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    You left out that Smakici is a homeless man's version of Ortiz. And he's the only guy Kabayel has fought who's remotely similiar.
     
  10. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    You conveniently left out Zhang. Who's even more similar, a southpaw with excellent timing and far greater power than either Smakici or Ortiz.
     
  11. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Zhang has cement feet and five round stamina. I picked Kabayel to beat Zhang in the fashion in which it unfolded. But Ortiz is a different kettle of fish. If only you knew the sport like me….
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2025
  12. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nice style match-up. Ortiz is a better counter puncher than Zhang and has better power than Sanchez and his ability to throw uppercut with both hands may be what's needed to hold Kabayel's relentless body attack off.

    Still though, Agit by competitive decision would be my pick with his advantages in workrate and youth. I don't think we've seen Ortiz in his physical prime in the pros.
     
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  13. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Oh I do... and far better.

    But hey... whatever you need to do to convince yourself otherwise. Have at it!:eaea:
     
  14. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I remember how favouring Agit over Chisora was considered "crazy pick" at the time haha.
     
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  15. Drstillhammer

    Drstillhammer Member Full Member

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    Kabayel Will land- he does some proper damage with the body work. Ortiz is a tough cookie to crack; can still see Some scenarios of Ortiz getting Kabayel out of the ring, albeit with slim chances.