AJ: a great modern fighter can compete in any era

He was ouslicking Fury though. Fury had trouble with his coordination against the smaller quick fighter which is why he started getting aggressive. Fury didn't dominate the fight. Fury had to pick himself uo off the canvas which is why he probably said it was a hard fight. Also Cunningham having a longer reach than Ali or Usyk doesn't mean much. He's not faster or more skilled than Ali or Usyk and doesn't posses the level of head movement that Usyk has let alone prime Ali.

Fury has gotten a LOT better but he still hasn't fought a small slick heavyweight yet so we're not sure how he'd do against one now. Klitschko is better than Cunningham but he doesn't have the same attributes that Cunningham possesed. The same cunningham that gave Fury a competitive fight. Also Holyfield was past his prime against Lewis. Not Qawi and definitely not Bowe.

 

I definitely don't read much in to the Cunningham bout. 24 years old and more importantly (at the time) without his uncle in his corner, and behaving erratically from the first round. It was a clear case of oversight and negligence of professionalism. This is a similar Fury who was not long coming off the back of eventful bouts with Pajcik and Firtha, at a time where the vast majority were championing David Price until he had just been beaten for the first time. A lot has changed since.

I think Usyk causes serious issues for Fury, but not somebody like Hunter. Usyk is not only talented but he has the engine to go 12 vigorous rounds. Hunter doesn't.

 

Cunningham's movement and size was making Fury miss more than usual but Fury still out-landed him in the 1st round. Fury was dropped in the 2nd and had to hold on, after that he switched tactics and didn't give him room to throw the overhand right by closing him down and leaning all over him. Fury won rounds 1, 4, 5, 6 and was winning 7 before he KO'd Cunningham. Fury said it was his hardest fight because a 2x cruiserweight champion giving you a good fight on his home soil before you KO him sounds far less embarrassing than being beaten by British level fat John McDermott on neutral soil, hence why he omitted the latter from a discussion of his five or so "toughest fights". I don't doubt for a second that Usyk and Ali are better than Cunningham but they would be at a 7 inch reach disadvantage compared to Cunningham's 3, against a vastly improved version of Tyson Fury. Hopefully Fury will fight Usyk and we'll see how he deals with a top tier, fast, ultra-slick small heavyweight.

 

He wasn't getting agressive to not allow cunnintham to throw his right he got agressive because cunningham was extremely mobile and he tried to pin him down. Thats why in the early rounds Fury kept yelling at cunningham and gesturing at him to come forward and fight aggressively, saying "Come on!" And stuff like that. It was clearly a tough stylistical match up for Fury because he never faced someone as slick as himself. But the McDermott fight also proved that he also has stylistical problems against fighters who press the action and fight him on the inside. Or swarmers.

Also Cunninghams reach is longer but like i said he's nowehere near the level of Ali. It doesn't really matter

 

I disagree with Usyk being a "small" heavyweight. Firstly, most heavyweights could compete at cruiserweight easily if they got into shape. Usyk walks around at 225lbs, a legitimate 6'3'' (or near enough) with visible abdominals.

The biggest heavyweight around today at the highest level is Fury, who is 6'7-6'7.5" (not his billed height) and a fat 270 odd pounds.

A disparity of 4 inches and tens of pounds of body fat is not enough to label Usyk a small heavyweight. He's the same height as Dillian Whyte, or slightly taller. Just because Whyte carries a lot more body fat than Usyk does not, to me, indicate that Whyte is a much larger man. Far from it.

My point of view is that while Usyk is not a large heavyweight, he's not small. And most importantly, the fact that many heavyweights have a couple of inches on him and tens of pounds of fat, really makes no odds anyway, because their skill level is so poor in comparison. In my opinion, there's less than 8 heavyweights in the world that stand a chance of beating Usyk - the rest come nowhere close.

I'd like to see Usyk get his shot at the likes of Joshua and Fury. Nobody can claim they are the best of this era, if in a few years time, they have not defeated Usyk and he has remained undefeated.

 

Fury was taunting Cunningham in the first round, baiting him forward but Fury still won that round. By smothering Cunningham he nullified his offence as well as draining his energy and putting him under constant pressure. Cunningham gave him a few problems but he still dominated the fight, KO'd him just over half way through and this was as we both agree, a vastly inferior version of Fury. And let's not even mention the out of shape, unmotivated 20 year old Fury of 12 years ago who fought McDermott the fight time round. The Fury who fights AJ and Usyk will be a different animal entirely. Surrendering 7 inches of reach would make it extremely difficult for Ali or Usyk to fight on the outside against Fury. Do you believe Fury would have beaten Wlad fighting on the outside with a 74 inch reach? Ofc not.

 

Usyk weighed 217 in his last fight compared to Chisora's 255 and looked small in there. If Usyk was best at 225 that's what I would expect him to weigh in his heavyweight fights. Body fat also shouldn't be written off; it makes you a bigger man and carries it's own advantages. Usyk is a small heavyweight compared to super-heavyweights like Fury, Joyce and Hrgovic but he's not a tiny 6'1, 205 pound heavyweight like Babic. I agree that he will beat most top heavyweights on account of his unique skillset, speed, agility and stamina, provided he isn't robbed on the cards.

 

I said that Usyk walks around at 225lbs, not competed against Chisora at 225lbs. Regardless, the fact that he was 217lbs to Chisora's 255lbs paints its own picture.

Carrying fat is not advantageous, as the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages. If Usyk wanted to be a relatively lean 230lbs, he easily could be, but it would be to the detriment of his overall abilities. However, boxing fans would be far less likely to label him "small" - that in itself demonstrates how useless the big and small debate is. It's fickle.

Fury doesn't want to box Usyk because he sees him as a threat. His remarks regarding Usyk are embarrassing! Maybe Joshua will be more open to giving him a go, but I doubt that, too. They'll want to freeze him out for as long as possible considering that he's already 34, but something tells me that age won't be that big of a factor with Usyk because he takes care of himself and physical attributes like endurance and speed I doubt will be an issue - more reflexes.

 

He did not dominate that fight it was throughly competitive. He smothered him to drain his energy and pin him down because cunningham was a slick fighter. Ali would be outslicking Fury, jabbing to the body, and would be dancing around, making Fury become the agressor. And no he clearly wouldn't beat Klitschko if he had a 74 inch reach but where is this 74 inch reach coming from ? That is a short wingspan for a 6'3 fighter let alone a 6'7½. Ali's was 78 inches and he outboxed sonny liston with a reach disadvantage. Ali used his speed and coordination not his reach. Thats why he beat Bunger and Terell comfortably. He didn't have to rely on his reach all the time. Fury does. We saw how Wallin gave Fury trouble working the body and applying pressure. And Wallin himself isn't even a pressure fighter.

 

Usyk may walk around at 225 but Whyte probably walks around at 270, I'm talking about their optimal fighting weights. Usyk's optimal fighting weight is probably around the 217 he weighed for the Chisora fight or he would have come in heavier.

For Usyk's style, the disadvantages of carrying more fat would outweigh the advantages but this isn't the case for all fighters. More weight in the form of additional fat gives you more power wrestling in the clinch, more punch power, more punch resistance and can grant psychological advantages (underestimation, greater fear of humiliation, size as intimidating in itself). Would Ruiz be more effective at 210-220 pounds? I highly doubt it. If you're going to carry a lot of fat though your frame has to permit it, you need to be well-conditioned and have a lot of muscle underneath.

I suspect that Fury sees Usyk as more of a threat and definitely less vulnerable than AJ. He has claimed that Usyk may be his toughest opponent but also that Usyk is too small and I remember him saying that the belts should stay in the Anglophone countries and no one knows who Usyk is. The risk-reward for fighting Usyk is far less favourable for Fury than two fights with AJ and then whoever after that. Usyk can put himself in pole position to fight Fury after he's beaten AJ by beating Joyce but I have a bad feeling about it if they fight in Britain. Warren will want to rig the cards in Joyce's favour as he did for Dubois in Dubois-Joyce and as Hearn did in Usyk-Chisora, with his judges giving Chisora 5 rounds. Joyce may only need to legitimately win 4-5 rounds to get the win over Usyk at home, leaving Fury safer and Queensbury keeping hold of the belts for the foreseeable future in all possible outcomes. Usyk as you said is already 34 and will be at least 35.5 by the time he can possibly fight Fury but Fury could retire as a HoF champion after beating AJ and we'd never get to see it.

 

A 74 inch reach is 7 inches shorter than Klitschko's 81 inches; the same difference in reach between Ali and Fury. Ali never fought anyone nearly as tall, rangy and heavy as Fury who was also a top athlete, fast for a man of his size with excellent boxing skills. The likes of Bugner and Terell are levels below. The men Ali beat were essentially cruiserweights today and some of them beat him, more than the record would suggest (Frazier, Norton, Young). Ali and Holmes represented evolution from Marciano and Louis, Lewis and Klitschko from Ali and Holmes and Fury today. In the future there will be 7'2 150 KG skilled heavyweight athletes who will be a step above again and their relatively small disadvantages in speed and co-ordination (which is present whenever you move up weights) will be more than compensated by their height, reach, weight, durability and likely power advantages.

I think Wallin is currently a top 20 heavyweight with confidence, durability, skill and speed but he was fighting a weight-drained, overconfident, overtrained and one-eyed Fury and was still comfortably beaten on the cards. It's a rematch I would like to see though.

 

Thats not how it works, you're assuming Ali relied on his reach, he didn't. Thats why he beat people with reach advantages. For example Usyk himself is similar to Ali in terms of physical dimensions and he gave klitschko problems in sparring. Its not his reach that would give Fury trouble its his elite level head movement, his footwork, his foot speed, his handspeed, his ring iq and his coordination that world give Fury some problems. We saw how Cunningham stylistically gave him problems because of his slickness. Klitschko and Ali fight nothing alike. Ali would be the one dancing around Fury, not the other way around. Klitschko stood in the ring and didn't let his hands go because of Furys feints and fluidity.

Ali would quite literally force Fury to become the agressor. Lets see how he does with Usyk. If Usyk gives Fury some problems im not sure Fury could beat Ali. But if he easily beats Usyk then id favor Fury. Also while wallin is possibly a top 20. He still isn't proven. Outboxing Breazeale doesn't say much except that he's got at least ok boxing skills

 

Usyk managed to beat taller, rangier heavyweights than himself in the world series of boxing and gave Wlad problems in sparring but none of these men are like Fury. It's bizarre that you're claiming that reach isn't a factor. Speed, agility, co-ordination etc. can compensate for physical disadvantages but Usyk's height and reach disadvantages were far more narrow than they would be against Fury. Usyk, like Ali, has a 78 inch reach, which is good enough for most opponents but would they be anywhere near as successful with Pacquiao length arms? Speed and co-ordination can't overcome physical disadvantages when they become too large and the bigger man has elite skills as well.

I don't believe Ali would beat Usyk, so a dominant performance against Usyk would confirm it for me. Like footballers in the past, the greats of old just aren't on the level of the new greats. Pele and Maradona for example were playing against absolute carthorses in defence. Messi and Ronaldo are better athletes with modern advantages at their disposal, score and create more goals against a higher level of opposition, so it's chalk and cheese. But fans tend to be nostalgic and like to believe that no one can even get close to the legends of the past. So it's common to hear boxing fans saying like "A prime Mike Tyson would knock AJ out in a round", when a prime Mike Tyson went the distance with journeymen and fringe contenders.

 

Let’s see Usyk beat a better heavyweight than Del Boy before we start saying Fury is ducking him.

As for the hardest fight question, no fighter ever had answered that honestly. They always pick someone they beat to massage their own ego.

I have zero interest in Usyk v Fury or AJ. Time for AJ and Fury to fight and see who is number 1

 

Anyone watching this Tyson v Bruno documentary? Absolutely brilliant watch so far.