Tyson was a sub 6ft heavyweight without reach and a one dimensional style. A very good fighter for a brief period and against some middling opposition and that’s about it. He never beat a prime great fighter in his life. In fact every great fighter he met (Lewis and Holyfield) beat him senseless and ktfo. The nonsense spouted by his fanboys/apologists is pathetic. You hear this mutt favoured against ATG’s routinely but the reality just doesn’t add up to the hype.
ShovelHook, I regret when some folks are either petty or vicious...OR betray bias by cooking the number or misstating reality. You seem to know a fair amount about boxing-you must know that Ali was not flabby in some fights like FOTC-his weight was accurately described as "redistributed" to his upper body. Also it was a very small change between his prime & say FOTC at 215... How can you say peak Ali was 200-210? There is really no debate that both 1) Ali was best between 1966-1967, & that 2) He weighed in between 210 & 215 lbs. then. These things are easy as pe to confirm. Such as the weigh in for what is usually considered his best performance, vs. Cleveland Williams-212 & 1/2 lbs. Slightly heavier again Chuvalo. Now that he was not too far from his best when a little lighter, OK, but you are not being accurate & perhaps honest when you use weights when he was not at his very best...Which erodes credibility. Also heights are often exaggerated. I think Ali was a legitimate 6' 3", but anyone of us could be incorrect. But how on earth did you get that Ali was only 6' 1 & a 1/2"? Please show me even one source that uses that number. Ali & Tyson were close in peak speed-& you *again* cooked the books when it comes to the numbers-on Tyson. This time you just rounded things up for Tyson-which is not scrupulously honest. Peak/prime Tyson was between 214-221 lbs. Any fight you can call his best-perhaps Spinks the best at 217-was within that range. So the weights of peak Tyson & Ali were no more than 5 lbs. apart. Of course that difference would not prevent them each being as fast at the other's weight. Your points of Tyson facing heavier opposition are perfectly valid. *But* when you use numbers that are innacurate to massage reality in what you beliege is in your favor-your fair points are lost..
Ali was 6'1.5" because he was the same height as Henry Cooper and shorter than Foreman who's listed at 6'3". He also weighed in at 215 once between 64-67. He was mostly in the 200-210lbs range.
Not really. By the same token, Earnie Shavers beat Muhammad Ali into brain damage and Parkinson's. People say Tyson hits harder than Shavers, ergo Tyson would have destroyed Ali
Christ, what is it with some of you on here. For the third time...... I met Ali 3 times. He was all of 6' 3" Seamus from Classic forum met him and will confirm this. Neither of us read it in a magazine or the internet or Boxrec etc. We saw it in person. Stop with this 6' 1" nonsense, you are embarrassing yourselves.
No, Tyson wasn’t a ‘souped up Frazier’ I always hear this and it doesn’t make any sense. They both liked the left hook and going on the inside, that’s the only similarities really. Tyson mostly used strength and speed to crush opponents quickly (not that this was all he could do), while Frazier had much better stamina, and used it to apply a sustained pressure that Tyson was never capable of. Ali always fought great against Frazier in the first few rounds, and Frazier always came back strong. However, you seem to be arguing that because Frazier gave Ali tough fights and Tyson is faster and stronger, he wins. It wasn’t Frazier’s speed or strength that bothered Ali, it was the endless stamina. Tyson never proved he could go 15 rounds like Ali and Frazier did, let alone better than Frazier. I just don’t think that Frazier giving Ali three wars leads to Ali being so overwhelmed with Tyson’s vaguely similar style that he’s KO’d relatively early, which I think he needs
1986 when Witherspoon was in the U.K. there was a public open day to watch the sparring and Ali was signing autographs. Another 2 times at book signings. You knew you were in the presence of someone very, very special. I have never seen any human draw a crowd quite like Ali did.
Tyson - Douglas didn’t tell us anything... Mike was a mess. He didn’t train and patied too much. The day before the fight he was out partying with Bobby Brown and a number of japanese girls... Mike needed structure in his life - a structure that only Cus could provide... Mike was 23 when he fought Douglas and it was definately not a fully focused prime fighter. Unfortunately we never got to see a prime Tyson. We got to see a young dedicated fighter at first, who could have caused any HW past and present problems.
Honestly, I'd say based on the data, I could see the fight going either way. Ali wins if Tyson can't hit him. Tyson wins if he can
This is an excellent post! Though Ali missed a lot of FOTC due to Fraizer's speed & movement. But Tyson was much easier to tie up, & I would say that Tyson did not so much like the inside as mid-range-but he had to go inside much taller opponent's wheelhouse to get there. Then he was complicit in the clinch & resets.
Ali would drag him into the late rounds and take him out. Very tough man, if he can survive the early rounds with Foreman, then I'd say he can survive the early rounds with Tyson.
Ehhhh not really. Physically? Kind of. Not sure cocaine binges and sleepless party nights allow you to be at your peak physically. Skill and mentally? He was definitely not. I think the peak of Mike Tyson being at his best was the Tony Tubbs fight and the nail in the cauffin was when he fired Rooney.
