AJ v Ngannou

Byrd got KO'd by Shaun George of all people one fight after Povetkin. So I guess that win was meaningless.

I don't think it is meaningless but he's certainly not a top 2 Povetkin win. Huck (who arguably won), Takam, Chambers and others were more formidable at the stage Povetkin fought them.

You can lose most of the rounds and ultimately lose but still bust the opponent up Mitch, there's no inconsistency. Joshua's face was busted up after the Helelnius fight, by the Helenius jab:

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/102/590x/secondary/4906598.avif?r=1691916799854

Charles Martin was better than Takam according to you. And that was a Takam who'd basically completed his career, barring a few more losses and beating Yoka. You were ranking Takam down purely to rank down Chisora, in order to rank down Fury. And ranking Martin up to boost AJ.

Wilder's best similar height opponent beaten is either Washington, who schooled Chambers, KO'd Forrest in 2 (Hunter couldn't one fight later) and KO'd Helenius, or Breazeale, who took Joshua 7 and stopped Mansour, or Helenius, who took Joshua 7, busted him up and was coming off 2 KO's over Kownacki, who'd beat Martin, Arreola, Washington and Szpilka. More importantly, Wilder got a draw against Wlad-dethroner Fury, a draw which you considered legit at the time.

 

Parker a nobody? He just beat Wilder, the guy you said was one of the top HWs? Also beaten Ruiz (who has achieved more than Wilder and has a better career win), Chisora and and Takam.

If Parker is a nobody then Wilder is even less than nobody.

Nobody has beaten more quality or more top 10 opponents than AJ and AJ has beaten more quality HWs than Wilder and Fury combined.

AJ busted up against Helenius then you proceed to show a photo of Guinness dripping down his face? Hey?

 

Parker's a nobody like Martin and Williams are nobodies. Better than those guys sure but just "another guy" in the era. Wilder has the 10 consecutive defences, the KO record, the epic Fury trilogy and he saved the American heavyweight division for a number of years. Parker is just Parker.

0-2 against Usyk, 1-1 against Ruiz, best win 41 Wlad life and death in London who Fury had dethroned with ease in Germany 17 months prior. Impossible to reasonably rank AJ higher than 3rd as things stand.

 

Yes but post klitschko he's struggled with pianetta, walllin and ngannou. Went life and death with wilder who is useless. He's 2nd in the division for now but only just. A win agaisnt usyk cements his legacy but a loss drops him back into the pack with the likes AJ, joyce, hrgovic, zhang, etc.

AJ has only lost to usyk on merit. He had an off night against ruiz the first time but that can happen. (look at fury vs mcdermott) He avenged that well and he's taken a few knees but to say he's hasn't got a chin a according to most he's never been flat on his back like fury has multiple times.

Fury AJ is actually a really good dust up based on recent form and I think once Usyk boxes the socks off fury and AJ deals with ngannou that fight goes from a 70/30 to a 50/50 again.

 

Not very smart to think Pianeta gave him any problems. That was a sparring session.

Emanuel Steward didn't think Wilder was "useless" but I'm sure randoms on the forum know better.

"Off night" against Ruiz is a typical excuse. Fury had an off night against Ngannou but he didn't get dropped another three times and quit after that 3rd round counter left hook KD.

Fury has far better punch resistance than Joshua, hence he and his team have been far more willing to fight champion punchers (including Haye, who was heavily favoured at the time) even in their backyards, it's also why he's not been KO'd despite facing Wlad, Wilder x3 and Ngannou, and let alone been KO'd by Ruiz.

Fury-Joshua is as irrelevant as Fury-Price and Fury-Haye at this point, Joshua is dependent on Fury throwing him a bone.

 

Any version of Fury beats any version of Joshua in my view. Fury just has far more about him in terms of skills and adaptability and has far more heart too. He'll be well up for it when it happens more than any other fight (bar Usyk) and I just don't see a route to victory for Joshua.

 

Parker is a former world champion with wins over Ruiz, Wilder, Chisora and Takam.

Wilder title defences against such poor opponents level c or d level fighters pales insufficient in comparison. Parker has beter career win that Wilder (Ruiz went to be unified champion plus beat Wilders only notable win in Ortiz)and holds a win (a 12 round shutout) against Wilder.

Parkers record is far superior Wilder, there is no logical reasons that could be debated otherwise.

As with the AJ vs Wilder legacy - no comparison and that's why AJ is winning the AJ vs Wilder legacy vote in the forum by a landslide.


You can debatably rank AJ 2nd in the division due to him having a beaten superior opposition to Fury.

AJ notable wins
- Wlad
-Povetkin
-Whyte
- Parker
-Ruiz
-Pulev
- Wallin

Fury
-Wlad
-Whyte
-Wilder
-Chisora
- Wallin

Whilst you can state AJ did what Fury couldn't, hurt and stopped both Wlad and Wallin (who caused Fury hell).

 

"there is no logical reasons that could be debated otherwise."

Yet you're trying to debate it.

Wilder has a better record than Parker because he's a 10 consecutive defence 5 year titlist with a classic trilogy (including a controversial draw) against lineal champ Wlad-dethroner Fury. And he's the most significant American heavyweight this century, regarded as one of the biggest punchers ever.

Parker is a non-descript titlist more similar to Stiverne or Martin but with a big win on paper, like Williams. Parker's failed to stop all of his 12 best opponents, including Cojanu and Fa.

"that's why AJ is winning the AJ vs Wilder legacy vote in the forum by a landslide"

Forum polls are amusing more than anything else.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/arslanbek-makhmudov-heavyweight-hypejob.714667/

 

10 title defences? Look at the competition!

Beating Ruiz, Wilder, Chisora and Takam is far, far more impressive than Ortiz, Duhaupas, Stiverne, Spzilka and Washington.

Parker has beaten Ruiz (a unified champ who has a better career win than Wilder has) and has a win over Wilder himself (it one sided victory) and beat Chisora twice (who beat 2 of Wilders best wins in Spzilka and Washington).

It's clear to everyone on this forum except you and Beale.

 

Vitali is a 1st ballot Hall of Famer despite probably having a weaker resume than Povetkin, who will not get in.

Vitali defended against far weaker opposition on the whole as WBC champ than Wilder did.

Wilder defended against Ortiz x2 (who had a very close 12 rounder against Joshua-conqueror Ruiz 4.5 years after Wilder-Ortiz 1) and Fury x2, drawing in the 1st fight.

Wilder has an ATG trilogy, Parker doesn't and never will.

If Ruiz is considered Mexican then America's only heavyweight champ since 2007 is Wilder, barring the legendary 85 day reign of Charles Martin. It's fair to say that Wilder carried the American heavyweight division for a long time.

That is more significant than what paint dry Parker has done, just as Vitali had a more significant career than Povetkin.

 

Your framing is as usual slimy and dishonest.

If you were honest you'd mention that Fury has multiple wins worth including over Wilder (2020-2021) and Chisora (2011-2014).

You'd mention that Fury beat Cunningham; a 2x cruiser titlist and No.1 ranked cruiser with 9 title fights who KO'd long-reigning cruiser titlist Huck (very close MD with Povetkin), beat cruiser titlist G. Jones (drew with Nelson in Britain, stopped Lebedev) and beat fellow 2x cruiser titlist Wlodarczyk, as well as 20-0 Mansour at heavyweight.

You'd mention that Fury has a draw with Wilder. Fighting massive punchers 4x away from home is vastly more dangerous than doing so just once against Fury's leftovers of 17 months, at home.

You'd mention that Joshua has three losses, 1-1 with Ruiz and 0-2 with Usyk, while Fury has zero losses. Which by any reasonable standard precludes Joshua from being ranked above Fury, which you concede in Usyk's case.

Ruiz did to Joshua what Usyk couldn't over 24 rounds by beating him down and making him quit in 7. But I regard Usyk's wins as superior, especially the first.

I don't put much stock in the fact that Joshua stopped Kevin, Wlad and Wallin post-Fury, or that Fury stopped Whyte quicker than Joshua had previously, or that journeyman Puritty, Sanders and Brewster stopped Wlad faster than Joshua etc. I don't think you care that Wilder stopped Breazeale and Helenius 6 rounds faster than Joshua apiece.

 

At the end of the day, I score the first round 10-6 in favour of redbeard against mitchroom

 

Povetkin broke his hand early against Firtha if I remember correctly

 

Here's a more meaningful and less biased account of the respective records of Fury and Joshua:

Fury’s record (9-0-1)

2011 Chisora (underdog)

2013 Cunningham (America)

2014 Chisora

2015 Wlad (underdog, Germany)

2018 Wilder (underdog, America, draw)

2019 Wallin

2020 Wilder (underdog, America)

2021 Wilder (America)

2022 Whyte

2023 Ngannou

(note: favourite 2013 Haye withdrew from the scheduled Fury fight 7 days out)


Joshua’s record (8-3)

2015 Whyte

2017 Wlad

2017 Takam

2018 Parker

2018 Povetkin

2019 Ruiz (America, loss)

2019 Ruiz

2020 Pulev

2021 Usyk (loss)

2022 Usyk (underdog, loss)

2023 Wallin

 

Yes, exactly, point proven in that AJ has clearly beaten the better opponents.