Alexis arguello or carlos monzon?

:deal

This post is the perfect response to this thread. Two true ATGs, but Monzon has the edge.

 

:dealI couldn't agree more..and I was a big fan of Arguello, but Monzon is in a league of his own. It's very hard, almost impossible for some fans to understand that. If you had the ultimate tournament between the great middlewight champions of the past right up to the present, Monzon, in my opinion would have beaten them all, and the same critics would be unable to accept it. Monzon decieves many even today because of that prev iously noted understated style and the fact that he provided no excitement with emotion and flair. He was steady, cold, methodical and had an attitude of total arrogant contempt for his opponents, yet took no prisoners and no foolish risks. He was patient as hell and just seemed to know that he was going to win...and by the way, he would have been a very successful cold blooded professional killer or assassin had he so chosen to be.

 

Listen to me: I couldn't give a ******'s what pathetic stories you dig up about who calls Monzon great. It means nothing. These people are kidding themselves.

 

Leonard has an argument? An argument? Leonard has:

A stoppage win over a primed-out Thomas Hearns, one of the greatest H2H Welterweights OAT
A dominant thrashing and stoppage of a near-peak Wilfred Benitez
A thrashing of Kalule
Two thrashings over Duran
Dethroning arguably a better MW than Monzon in Hagler
The status of a five weight world champ

And you think Monzon's record is comparable? Unbelievable.

As for the other guys: Consider a few examples:

Chavez - great H2H force at 130-140, I rate him the best ever at 130 which Monzon isn't even at one single weight, though you could argue for it. Wins over Rosario, Ramirez, Lockridge, Taylor twice, Mayweather, Camacho - all comparable opposition in ability to Valdez, Benvenuti, Griffith, Napoles if you take into account the state of the fighters at that time and their natural weight. Actually, Chavez has better wins, and wins is not even his strong point.

Holyfield - Pretty much best ever Cruiser, two Ws over Qawi, again up there with most of Monzon's wins. Beat more top ten Heavyweights than any Heavyweight champion ever other than Ali (to my knowledge) - Holmes, Foreman X2, Tyson X2, Bowe (H2H beast), Moorer, 4-time champ with incredible longevity. Monzon has wins over guys that would rank in similar positions in an ATG list as the above (Benvenuti, Griffith), equally past-prime, except Holyfield beat them while up in weight and against massive size deficits, whereas Monzon had the size advantage.

Hopkins - Dominations of Trinidad, Joppy, Allen, DLH, Tarver, Pavlik. Arguably never lost once he reached his peak, certainly I thought he beat Calslappy and Taylor both times. More defences than Monzon and was a more dominant champion by far, dropping maybe a handful of rounds a ten-year reign. Two weight world champ (old weights) and the better fighter on film prime-for-prime.

Notice I didn't even pick the easiest examples to defend, like Whitaker and Hearns who are overwhelmingly the superior fighters with the better records.

 

What did Monzon do well in your eyes, other than be "ice-cold"?

 

I cant believe me and you agree,Arguello by a long way he was even dominant when he was past his prime,not many fighters can say that,it took a monstrous younger whirlwind in Pryor to beat him and he nearly died doing it, I've never seen a man take shots like Pryor did,they were worst than the Rocky movies and 140 wasnt even Alexis's best weight thats pretty phenominal in my eyes,never seen that in Monzon seems like he beat up older smaller fighters,while Alexis was older and moving up and koing younger bigger fighters,Monzon is very very overrated,he kinds reminds me of Mayweather,the way he didnt challenge himself much,Monzon was very skilled but he didnt seem like he was a very courages fighter,his domination at 160 is kind of overblown.

 

Certainly, Monzon never beat a great fighter in their prime. You have to factor in Napoles/Benvenuti/Griffith were all well past prime when Monzon got to them, Napoles was a 34yo who was a LW until around the age of 28. Briscoe and Valdez were god but limited. Yet the same people calling Monzon great dissect Lewis's resume, saying Holy/Tyson were past prime, double standards.

In answer to the thread, I think its very close, in both resume, performances and I see similarities in style and the nature of physically imposing. Arguello the more devastating fighter who P4P was the stronger man, Monzon the smarter boxer with better movement/defense, depends which you prefer. Resume wise, Monzon has the greater names, Arguello success over more divisions. Depends which you prefer. I'm not sure I like Monzon picking on smaller/limited men and not seeking out bigger challenges

 

Arguello stopped 4 times.....Monzon had more fights, never stopped.

 

So what? He was green. And it's not surprising - Arguello took on bigger challenges. I'd like to see Monzon move up three weights and take on an animal like Pryor, he'd be brutalised.

 

Yeah, they are all wrong and only you know the truth. :good

 

Leonard also lost in his prime at his best weight against a blown-up lightweight. Monzon never happened anything like that. I don´t think both are far apart p4p and who ranks higher is a matter of what you like. Both are ahead of the others. And pretty clearly imo.

 

atsch

Because he never fought anybody like that. If he'd fought a "blown-up" Welterweight with Duran's ability, say Robinson or Hearns or Leonard, he would have lost and lost decisively.

Actually, Monzon's best wins were over "blown-up" fighters.

Thanks for your deep analysis, bodhi. :thumbsup

 

Well I'd prefer the guy to justify his opinions with better material than, "Hey, you know this guy said Monzon was really great?" It would be like me quoting Gil Clancy as evidence that Monzon is no good.

 

I actually do think they are far apart,not taking challenges,when your supposed to be great,is a huge mark 1 took on all comers the other picked and choosed carefully,which is exactly the reason why i dont view Jones,Calzhage and Mayweather as highly as most.

 

He had more sparring sessions.