Alexis Arguello v Floyd Mayweather Jr @ super-feather

I don't see it that way. I see Mayweather on the defensive for the most part, weary of Arguello's power as he was Corrales's.

Mayweather's body jab was excellent, but it's not like he had a Whitaker jab to the head, which would throw Arguello's rhythm off fully.

I definitely think so. Arguello was one of the best punchers in the history of the lower weight classes, not just in terms of power, but in terms of accuracy as well. I definitely think he hurts Floyd if Floyd is within punching range often, and if he plants himself often enough to throw combinations.

Not against Arguello I don't think. As I said, his balance was just too good for Floyd to get away with that stuff like he did Corrales.

Well, as I have made it clear, I don't see Mayweather fighting the same way as you do, not effectively anyway. And Arguello was a good deal better at 130 than he was when he faced Pryor.

Also, the late rounds were when Arguello was at his best, so I don't see him fading down the stretch at all, but rather improving.

True, and I believe he would, as I believe he'd be in constant motion during this fight, for his own good. I just can't see him planting himself long enough to throw combinations against an accurate power puncher like Arguello without taking some heavy duty return fire. Fighting using lateral movement and pot-shots would be more difficult for Alexis to deal with, and at a lesser risk for Floyd, especially over 15 rounds.

Definitely, I think we should agree to disagree on this, as I don't see Arguello taking punishment or fighting defensively like a shot Hernandez would. Just not Arguello's game against a fighter like Floyd.

I actually do see Mayweather doing that. Is that honestly so hard to believe considering he was never a great puncher and never faced a fighter on Arguello's level? I sound like a broken record here I'm sure, but I don't see Floyd getting off enough to hurt Arguello without the risk of heavy return fire. I think Floyd, if anything, would get more cautious as the fight went on, considering Arguello would be gaining momentum throughout, as he always struck me as one of the great 15 round fighters.

Over 12 rounds, I'd agree that Arguello would lose a Decision, as he wouldn't be able to time Mayweather accurately through most of the rounds, but I'd give him a better shot over 15.

 

Trust me, I do not underestimate Arguello by any means. I've seen more than enough of both fighters to make the comparison.

Arguello never applied extreme pressure, I think that's a mis-perception on your part. He applied steady and subtle pressure to figure his opponents out, with the slick movers being the most difficult for him. Therefore I don't see him figuring out another very smart, adaptable fighter like Floyd who holds the stylistic edge over him.

I agree with certain points that Robbi brings up, such as the fact that Floyd excelled against fighters of Arguello's style, whereas Arguello did not excel against fighters of Floyd's style. Most of his analysis I agree with in fact, aside from the stoppage in Floyd's favor, and the method Floyd would use to win.

 

You see Mayweather running around like a mouse with Arguello taking the roll of the cat. I see it that way as well, especially during the early stages. But as I said before, Mayweather has the speed and ability to hit Arguello with head shots then get away again. Arguello would get off better than Corrales, but his success rate would be few and far between.

Mayweather's jab would be a nuisance for Arguello. While it never had the snap and authority of Whitaker's, it was an effective point scorer. Blinding type of jab that he hooked off and brought the right hand it. This would cause Arguello problems to mount attacks. Arguello, while having decent speed, IMO never had enough speed to behind his own jab to outbox Mayweather. Just another problem for him round after round.

Yes Arguello was very accurate and could punch. But his power and Mayweather durability don't equate for Mayweather having problems. Well if Mayweather decides to fight Arguello in a similar fashion to how he fought Burton then yes I could see him getting floundered in there. But Arguello wasn't a one punch knockout artist, certainly not Hearns or Tyson like power at 130lbs to stop Mayweather. IMO he would need to be landing often on Mayweather to seriously trouble him. How Mayweather approaches this fight is anyones guess. But I see him mounting powerful attacks with both hands more often than you do. You seem to think he'll be on his bicycle for almost the entire fight. I don't.

I see Arguello getting off inside against Mayweather when he has those opportunities. The uppercut would be a nice weapon for Arguello. But IMO I can't see him landing this type of stuff often.

Well I would like to let you know that most people always have Arguello down for the slaughter with a style similar to Pryor's, no matter when he faced them in his career. Arguello needed to get set, liked to fight at his own pace, and was flat-footed for the most part to get maximum leverage and power into his shots. Apart from the jab, everything Arguello threw had a lot behind it. What I'm saying is that Mayweather without any question has the ability to do what Pryor did, although only for short periods of time. Obviously it's not in Mayweather's DNA to take the risks Pryor did. When Pryor stood in there with Arguello he had him backing up into a defensive shell only to give Arguello no option but to fire back. Not Argeullo's game, out of his comfort zone. Mayweather has the ability to be be less wasteful then Pryor, box more behind the jab, and strike on Arguello when he sees counter-punching opportunities. Arguello at 130lbs would obviously be quicker and have better reflexes, but it's a style thing more than anything else.

I don't see him fading down the stretch either, not alarmingly anyway. Mayweather's style would be a problem for him down the stretch. And I see this as Mayweather having a better balance of offense and defense. More importantly; styles.

Yes, Mayweather wasn't a great puncher. But he was well above average for the power shown by the super-featherweight divisons greats. Accumulation rather than raw power for Mayweather. I don't think Arguello would gain any momentum. Against other fighters he faced at 130lbs, but not against Mayweather. I see Arguello getting flustered with hitting fresh air, most of the time, but he would have his moments. Your going on reputation rather than the styles, I think. One fight, one night.

 

I'll respond to what I still disagree with only.

Why? Floyd has never taken anything like a flush Arguello shot.

Uh.

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As often as Mayweather would be willing to take the risks I could see it happening, whereas if Mayweather were to fight the type of fight I envision, he gives Arguello a lot less to work with.

I think it was Pryor's relentless fury that took Arguello off his game, not just his combos and explosiveness. Floyd has the combination ability and explosiveness, but he also gives Arguello more time in between to set up and time him, therefore he wouldn't be troubled as much by Floyd's approach as Pryor's. He'd still have major trouble outboxing him, but he wouldn't take a beating.

I see Floyd as having a pretty set style needed to beat Arguello, one which would only go downhill as Arguello gets more acclimated to it in the later rounds. Still, I'd favor Floyd to outpoint him.

Maybe the division in general, but not the greats such as Arguello, Saddler, Armstrong, Nelson, etc. Hell, not even a guy like Camacho at 130, who showed similar power and speed/skill level to Floyd.

I am not going on reputation whatsoever, otherwise I'd have chosen Arguello by late stoppage like everyone else. I like Arguello far more and rate him higher, so the fact that I favor Floyd over should deter you from making any accusations like that.

I simply don't see Floyd having the offensive ability needed to stop Arguello without putting himself in great danger against an offensive juggernaut. Just my take.

 

Floyd on points

 

" But Arguello wasn't a one punch knockout artist, certainly not Hearns or Tyson like power at 130lbs to stop Mayweather"

It's a hard one with Mayweather. Never been hit often by the punchers he faced. His chin was more or less void against Corrales for obvious reasons. But going on the evidence of Mayeather's chin combined with his defensive ability I can't see Arguello stopping him. Not with one shot anyway, accumulation he'd need and he's not got the style, handspeed, etc to do that against Mayweather.

Cheers for another view of the Rooney knockout. Again, show me a dozen like that and I'll be convinced. Aruguello wasn't a Hearns, Jackson, Tyson, etc at his weight. He could punch, hence the nickname "explosive thin man" but it was Duran like power rather than the raw type of power that would short circuit an opponent.


Sorry I can't quote every point you made. Just not the quickest of typers. These type of back and forth posts, in-depth, are few and far between from myself.

 

Arguello got Billy Costello basically with one punch too. Not 10 yet, but 2 and couting ;-)

 

I vaguely recall Bubba Buscheme going out abruptly too, but I'll verify that.

 

He took Mancini out with a single combination, amplified by that last straight right I believe it was.

I don't think there's any doubt personally that Arguello had one punch KO power.

 

Arguello could punch, no question about it. I just don't feel he could knockout Mayweather. If Mayweather was floored heavily at 130lbs then i'd give him a shot.

 

Yes, I have the fight. It wasn't a one punch knockout. He had Mancini's legs going heavily with an uppercut I believe, then followed by a series of punches from both hands. During the 13th round if memory serves me correctly.

 

"I can't see Arguello stopping him. Not with one shot anyway, accumulation he'd need and he's not got the style, handspeed, etc to do that against Mayweather"

:good

 

He never faced anyone like Arguello in that department though, at any weight. I don't think you can just give someone the benefit of the doubt against a puncher like Arguello though, especially one who's chin really hasn't been tested other than against Corley(whom he was clearly hurt against).

 

Well we are really going into unknown territory here aren't we? I would say Judah's power was good at 140/147lbs. Obviously better at 140lbs. De La Hoya could whack at 154lbs, although 'pound for pound' not like Arguello could at 126/130lbs. Mayweather's chin passed the test against everyone, apart from a touch down with the glove against Judah.

Regarding the Corley fight. Mayweather was stunned, but not for long. Part of the reason others are fooled, I know I'm not, into thinking he was badly seriously hurt was because after he took the punch he went back against the ropes. This IMO was Mayweather showing he had his senses about him more than being seriously hurt. Yes, the punch drove him back but Mayweather covered up and looked more like a man content on letting Corley shoot his bolt before coming back with his own offense rather than clinging for dear life.

 

Mayweather by decision over 12 rounds, if he doesn't get careless and get knocked out by Arguello's right hand.

Arguello by decision over 15 rounds.