Alexis Arguello vs Julio Cesar Chavez (135lbs)

Arguello was far beyond Rosario. And there is no way Chavez is outboxing Alexis from outside. I have already written why Chavez loses here and why Alexis wins... You seem to have an opinion as to what Alexis doesn't have that will see him defeated but I'd like to know what Chavez is going to do that will beat Alexis.

 

Arguello by decision.

 

I'd take Chavez at lightweight. While Arguello was a terrific boxer/puncher who moved reasonably well, he doesn't have the sufficient movement that Taylor and Whitaker had to out-box Chavez. Arguello's hands were quick, but nowhere near Taylor's. And his handspeed at lightweight was probably comparable to Whitaker's at welterweight.

Chavez would hunt down the taller Arguello and look to pound him inside. IMO Arguello's height and reach would bother Chavez as he was coming forward. He's got the measure of Chavez at long range with the jab, but I'm not sure he's got the ring generalship to keep him there for most of the fight. Arguello as good as he was up close isn't getting the better of Chavez in the pocket.

Rosario hit as hard as Arguello at lightweight and he could not discourage Chavez or throw him off his game. While I respect that Rosario and Arguello are quite a bit apart technically, the whole part of Arguello's power damaging Chavez aint happening. IMO thats Arguello's problem, he doesn't have the movement to outbox Chavez. He does have the timing as you said, but he'd need the blazing hands to go with his accurate timing while maneuvering; shifting side to side laterally within range. And Arguello was straight-up and down; rigid. Chavez wasn't purely an inside animal. Even though he was short at 5' 7" he did make the most of it at long range when required.

And just to keep you happy.


And I feel that Arguello fighting within distance, combined with his lack of speed to thoroughly outscore Chavez would be a problem. Fighters who are slower are more prone to being countered. Chavez always had trouble with speedy movers as he found them difficult to counter, Arguello isn't from that mould. With Arguello's reach and height providing Chavez with a little problem on the outside, Chavez is helped out by Arguello's lack of foot movement. As you rightly pointed he'd be relying on his timing and precison and maneuvering at arms length. I feel that Chavez himself relies on timing and precision. At mid-range Chavez has the shots to counter Arguello and force him into fighting his fight. And with Arguello being a good inside fighter, he'd come off second best with Chavez at close quarters.

 

The argument could be made that Rosario had slid well past his best by the time Chavez fought him.

Not to mention that the brilliant fight Chavez fought nullified most of not all of Rosario's power, so saying that Rosario couldn't make a dent in him isn't exactly fair when Arguello was far more adept at applying that power

 

- Arguello's hands were not quick.
- Are you saying that Chavez could only be beaten by speedy boxers? Would you therefore argue that Chavez would beat Ortiz? Ike Williams?

- Arguello was a ring general.
- I'd consider it roughly even in the pocket, but Arguello has a serious advantage outside. No?
- Are you sure that Chavez would just repeatedely shake off that straight Arguello right? Chavez is no master of elusiveness and he was static enough for Alexis to connect.

Again, only speedy boxers beat Chavez at LW?

"Arguello's hands were quick..."
"Argeullo['s]... lack of speed to thoroughly outscore Chavez..."

Which is it?

Robbi, no offense here, I'm only testing your argument.

 

Julio Cesar Chavez

 

I'm saying that speedy boxers were the ones that gave Chavez the most trouble. Looking back in hindsight Chavez could only be beaten by speedy boxers when close to his prime as you could get. Taylor outboxed him with lateral movement and blazing flurries. However, Taylor was beaten as his durablity evaporated in the last round. Duran could not take as many rounds off Chavez as Taylor did, certainly not dominate him in each round like Taylor, but he would beat Chavez. I've not seen enough of Ortiz and Williams to make an opinion on them. My prediction would be rather hazey.

Arguello was a ring general, but not in the sense to keep Chavez off him. Are you telling me Chavez would be dropped or hurt from Arguello? I'm sure he'd last the distance and get the better of an inside battle. Arguello's average speed would see him getting countered and forced to fight inside. You see it as even in the pocket, I don't.

Arguello's hands were quick, but not quick enough to outscore Chavez thoroughly enough at long range. I did say that Argeullo's height and reach would cause Chavez problems at times rather than speedy flurries. How does that sound?

I'm not saying Chavez would dominate Arguello. Far from it, but I like Chavez to edge it.

 

Okay... I think that your conclusion is a fair one and you defended it well.

 

Thanks mate. You know something about these mythical match-ups. We never know what would happen. I see the outcome of any old timers or retired fighters going against each other the same as fights that are predicted and due to happen next week. Sometimes the favourites don't win. Mostly everyone had Cotto down for beating Margarito a couple of weeks back based on his technical ability combined with his speed and boxing. It never happened.

I don't know about you, but some of these mythical match-ups I select and pick a winner, but I'm never 100% sure on most of them. Not because of lack of knowledge or self belief on my prediction, but rather harsh reality.

 

Yes, but they are the best part of the forum in my opinion -lots of fun. I'm not in the ring as much as I used to be, but these debates are kind of like a good bout, depending on who's in the opposite corner. And they keep our powder dry, intellectually at least.

 

Besides boxers with quick hand and foot speed, the most I've seen Arguello bothered by a fighter, (keep in mind I haven't done a film review of his entire career) was by two pressure fighter: Mancini did very well against Arguello in the early rounds of their fight until Arguello came back late and eventually stopped him, and Pryor swarmed all over Arguello, hurt him several times and drove him back consistently in the early rounds of their first bout.

Going off this, I can see a pressure fighter with sufficient strength, chin, and determination putting Arguello out of his comfort zone and gameplan and really causing him problems.

On the other hand, I cannot see, no matter how hard I try to picture it, anyone knocking a prime Chavez out or getting him to give up the offense. Also, Chavez' defensive abilities are underrated, I feel: he was actually pretty decent at slipping, ducking, and deflecting punches so they wouldn't hit flush. In particular I'm reminded of the Rosario fight, and a quote that was applied to Chavez about it afterwards, which was that on that night Chavez could stand on a space of ground the size of a napkin and not be hit. And if he does get hit, well, we all know how well Chavez can take it.

So, the way I see it, Chavez bores in relentlessly, with Arguello making him pay for getting inside. One Julio does get inside, however, he turns it into close quarters trench warfare and begins starting to break Arguello down. Eventually Chavez pulls out a very close decision, with his greater aggression and forcing the action at close quarters tipping the scales for the judges.

 

Chavez had great defense coming forwards like Loma does now.

 

I think Loma v Arguello would have gone like this also, the reason I am mentioning him is that someone stated Linares was fighting like Arguello against Loma and is physically built like Arguello.

 

This content is protected

 

Taylor stood in front of Chavez that`s why he was finished by the time the 12th round started, Ray Leonard mentioned it during the fight.