Alexis Arguello - What If...

Agreed again.

 

Indeed JT, this is beyond dispute.

For me, the real "What If..." question in this thread has to do with what happens if Marcel continues on. Had Alexis improved enough by Olivares to turn the tables on Ernesto? This might have become the defining rivalry for both. Think about this: Marcel turned 30 just two months before Vilomar Fernandez upset Arguello in July 1978. These two might have been able to carry on for years.

 

Good points. I'm not overly convinced Arguello from the Olivares fight turns the tables but somewhere around Kobayashi he would have been in with a good chance. It would have been interesting to see where Marcel ended up to.

 

Agreed. Royal Kobayashi was an extremely impressive performance and a case might be made that Arguello really came of age during his fifth round knockout of this future SBW Champion.

 

We are definitely on the same page.

 

Pryor wins anyway imo, he was just on top and people overestimate how much the ephedrine was helping him. Even if Arguello wins, Pryor probably gets downgraded as a champ, his resume Arguello aside isn't that amazing

 

Since this dude was Arguello's first challenger after Kobayashi, I wouldn't mind at all if he came back here to discuss details of that experience:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6470709&postcount=8

Based on this one and only brief entry of his into ESB Classic, Sal Torres seems to be a really cool guy, who certainly reinvented himself after boxing.

http://www.facebook.com/salvadore.torres#!/salvadore.torres?sk=info

 

Fantastic pickup on two levels dude, wow.

 

I don't think the Marcel fight takes away from Arguello's legacy, when you fight top fighters you will lose sometimes. Marcel was a great but a bit forgotten fighter only really remembered by us here on the Classic and in Panama I would imagine.
Round the time of the Pryor fight there was plenty of talk pof Alexis fighting Sugar Ray Leonard. I think if he had beaten Pryor in a great fight like it was it would definitely of raised his standing but he would of moved up and took on Leonard. For me this would of been a step too far. I think Leonard would of beaten him no problem. Depending how he performed in this one could of effected his legacy and probably unfairly. Unfortunately and I don't agree with it, fighters are often judged on their worst fight rather than all their great fights put together. Pryor would of come again which would of given more Kudos to Alexis.

 

that second fight was almost like a continuation of the first fight like you had round 15 and on. Alexis just could not do anything to turn the tide. Pryor really did take an emotional toll on Alexis, and also Pryor improved since the first fight and Alexis did not. that 1982 fight put both guys into a special place in boxing history. i

 

If Arguello had died before fighting Pryor (after the fight with Rooney), he would have achieved what he didn't fighting him....

He would be favourite in most threads about dream matches against Pryor in many boxing forums...and he would have jumped about 10 spots in the rankings just by dying...

I am not trying to be an a$$ here, but it's true... Salvador Sanchez is an example of that...

btw... Arguello and Sanchez are two of my favourite boxers...

 

Agree Flea. Marcel is just a bad match up for Arguello imo.

Alexis improved his physicality after facing Marcel, but he didn't improve in the areas that he would need to improve in, in order to beat Marcel (i.e. cutting off the ring, timing a moving target etc.)

Vilomar Fernandez, an inferior fighter to Marcel, gave Alexis a heap of trouble many years later with some fancy footwork (of course I don't think Arguello was in peak shape for that fight, nor do I think that Fernandez clearly beat Arguello for that matter, but still, the general tendency to be outboxed by good movement remained for Alexis).

Had Marcel faced a stronger Arguello a year or two down the track I think he probably would have just opted to use more movement rather than standing and trading as much as he did with Alexis in their fight.

 

Arguello had Marcel in some trouble at times...big trouble.

If Marcel's heart wasn't in it anymore by that stage..I think an immediate rematch would have been pretty close.

Say for an instance a big money offer brought Ernesto out of retirement..I could see him being under par and that could be enough for a more experienced Arguello.

 

Well sure, if he faces a faded Marcel, Alexis could definitely win.

Marcel was in quite some trouble in the Arguello fight, no doubt, but I think there was a fair amount of rope-a-dope in it as well as he tried to rest in the middle rounds. He basically goes from being flat footed and looking dead in rounds 8,9 and 10 to springing around all over the place in round 11.

You could say he recovered from being hurt, which is true, but I think he was also exaggerating how 'out on his feet' tired he looked in the middle rounds.

As an aside, I just watched the fight again to refresh my memory on it, and I still had it pretty much as I originally scored it. I can't really see the argument for Arguello winning this one. Even giving him a couple of 10-8 rounds which you could arguably do, he'd still lose by a clear 3 or 4 points on my card.

 

If Arguello had fought Vilomar Fernandez a few months after in a 15 round fight for the title, I am pretty sure that Arguello would have kicked his a$$...He would probably had won by ko, because I don't think Fernandez would have had the legs to run for another 5 rounds, and not only that, but we all know how good Alexis was in the championship rounds....

However the fight for the title never happened, so people keep talking up to this date as if Arguello received a boxing lesson in that fight...

Roberto Duran lost against Esteban de Jesus in a-ten-round fight as well...not only that... Duran kissed the canvas in that fight... however, Duran had the chance to fight De Jesus a couple of more times (both for the title) and Duran prevailed winning by ko in both occasions, so he had the chance to avenge his defeat for real, in a real title fight....

Up to this date people don't make too much out of the fight Duran lost, just because he won when it mattered...

Had Arguello done the same thing, people wouldn't be talking too much about that fight....People wouldn't be saying what you just said...

Would you agree that Arguello would have defeated Fernandez crystal clear in a 15 round fight for the title??? Would you agree that Alexis would had probably koed Fernandez in a 15 round fight the same way Duran did against De Jesus????

btw, my comments have nothing to do with the result of a battle between Marcel and Arguello, but I think it is a weak argument to support your opinion....

When the results are negative people have the tendency to look for the problems that caused that result and that's it, however, if the results are positive, then people talk in a different way, they talk about how great the champion is that always overcome difficult circunstances... example, Arguello vs Busceme.