Ali 1974 vs Joshua of today, who wins?

According to Ali it was, he said George hit him so hard that several times he hallucinated seeing skeleton's and spiders all over and that he knew he had to bring George into that same room if he was going to win.

 

Ali had a relatively easy time with Foreman. Sure he was hit rarely with a punch that rattled him but you would never know it by watching him. Against Frazier he received a sustained beating over many rounds. Joe was the much tougher opponent.

 

Ali, like George, talks a lot of crap at times tho. He said Shavers hit him so hard it shook his knfolk back in Africa etc. The fight for me shows the story.

 

Ali was not talking crap regarding his bout with Shavers. Ali was hurt worse than I ever saw him numerous times in that bout. Seriously out on his feet. Ali stated Shavers hit him hardest of any of his opponents. I would agree.

 

So his kinfolk really did shake in Africa?

I'll have a pound of whatever you are on mate. Jesus Christ.

 

Ali was in a humorous manner letting everyone know how very hard he was hit by Shavers. That's not talking "crap".

 

He was also in a "humorous manner" when saying "he hallucinated seeing skeleton's and spiders all over" as timmers pointed out to us.

He also apparently said "he knew he had to bring George into that same room if he was going to win."

So if you are believing everything Ali said this now puts him at odds with your "Ali had a relatively easy time with Foreman."

We all know Shavers hit him harder than anyone and he was staggered numerous times. Most of us realise his kinfolk really didn't shake too.

I do agree with timmers and Rez that Foreman was dangerous early and had ali's FULL attention. I just don't agree he was scared, going life and death with him and all that. I do think Ali handled some of the most thunderous and dangerous offense ever seen in those early rounds but he did it extremely well.

 

Watch the fight. Ali was rarely struck cleanly vs Foreman. Certainly at no time does Ali appear hurt.

Against Shavers everyone can see he was very badly hurt on many multiple occasions.

Of course Foreman was dangerous. Incredibly dangerous. His punches were so telegraphed however that Ali could avoid the truly KO blows with his great defense.

 

So you would venture to say Ali was talking crap about the hallucinating spiders and skeletons?

 

Never heard that quote from Ali. Again if you watch the fight at no time do you get the impression that Ali was hurt. That does not mean Ali was NOT hurt. He was just not hurt enough to exhibit the typical characteristics of a staggered fighter.

Contrast this with his bout with Shavers everyone can see multiple times Ali is seriously hurt and out on his feet.

 

I rewatched Joshu-Wlad last night and saw that was stunned by a hard, compact left hook from Wlad when chasing the KO in the 5th. That left stopped Joshua in his tracks quite a bit, so I think it was more that he was hurt by that hook than that he gassed.

Wlad then seized upon that initial left hook by landing more shots which eventually had Joshua almost out on his feet.

Watch from 1:15:

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The Foreman fight clearly wasn't an easy fight for Ali, but it wasn't his toughest night either. I'd put it below not only Frazier 1 and 3, all three Norton fights and the fight against Shavers but also the one against Jones in terms of Ali's toughest fights (and below the Holmes fight, of course).

 

This wasn't directed at me, but I can say that it was in his (discredited) autobiography. I've always had a hard time figuring out how literally or metaphorically he meant that - if they indeed even were his words, considering that his ghostwriter seems to have taken a pretty liberal "literary license". The made up story of him throwing his Olympic medal in the river after supposed confrontations with racist redneck whites is from that autobiography.

Ali definitely was stunned in the third round, but to my eyes he looked more badly hurt in quite a few of his fights.

 

I've watched the bout literally dozens of times and watched in live in 74. There is no way of telling Ali was hurt at any time during that bout via Ali's mannerisms that one see's on film.

After the bout the only visual effect is a blood shot eye which occurred via a thumb by George at the beginning of round 7.

Anyone can tell Ali was seriously hurt multiple times when he fought Shavers.

 

Good grief, obviously he wasn't talking realistically about kin in Africa and was making a point. About George and the punches that got through to his head he was stating the affects they had on him, theres zero reason to question how he recounted that fight.