Ali 1974 vs Joshua of today, who wins?

One of the dumbest responses I've seen in eastside.

 

Well you yourself proudly quoted Ali hallucinating and seeing spiders and skeletons as proof Ali went life and death with Foreman in Zaire. Blind Freddy can see he wasn't even wobbled, particularly in comparison to the Shavers fighht where he was staggered heavily.

But hey, if you are silly enough to believe every little thing he's quoted on be my guest.

 

No surprise the entire point went straight over the top of your head.

 

Earnie Shavers could be described accurately as a "big huge puncher" and by your own admission Ali had plenty of trouble with him.

Joshua is a low skilled and lumbering but Shavers (and P. Carnera) is super-slick, right?

I would feel safer in my Joshua pick if it was just you and the rest of the 'rose-tinted past glorifiers' only on the Ali side of the argument, unfortunately Man Machine, mcvey and a couple other respectable posters who actually know what they are talking about and keep some sort of consistency give me pause for thought. You are beyond biased towards fighters of old and against moderns which would be more tolerable if you were a little less smug about what you think you know.

 

To be fair 74 Ali was a lot different to 77 Ali.

 

We are talking prime Ali not old Ali as he was when he met Shavers. Also Shavers was not a BIG hwt.

If you think a total novice like Joshua has a chance against Ali then suggest you find another sport to follow. Boxing is way beyond your grasp. The mentality that size and muscularity make a hwt fighter a great fighter is garbage. It does not enter into the equation. Boxing is a highly skill based sport and it's those skills that you should be mindful of as well as conditioning, heart, durability and the ability to take a punch.

 

OK, but he said Ali never had any trouble with punchers. The majority would also rate Norton as a puncher and he gave Ali plenty of trouble.

[QUOTE="Perry, post: 18567557, member: 110648"If you think a total novice like Joshua has a chance against Ali then suggest you find another sport to follow. Boxing is way beyond your grasp. The mentality that size and muscularity make a hwt fighter a great fighter is garbage. It does not enter into the equation[/QUOTE]

1. Joshua isn't a novice.
2. Whatever you think you know, Joshua is not drawing dead here.
3. I don't think any of that stuff, if I did I would rate Carnera as a HW version of Benny Leonard like you do.

 

Joshua has 20 pro fights and he fights like a novice. Watch Ali vs Williams and then watch Joshua vs Wlad. If you don't see skills sets on opposite sides of the spectrum find a new sport to follow.

 

The majority wouldn't rate Kenny a puncher. He's on that platform a bit below them.

 

Very true. Muhammad had deteriorated a lot in the three years between those two fights.

 

It's a funny thing that. How he managed to hurt Ali more than almost any other opponent Ali met. Despite not having top notch power. Even in their second fight, where Ali was practically as good as he ever was in the 70's, Kenny had him in desperate trouble at times. Much more so than Quarry or Lyle or even Foreman ever had.

And reversely, neither Norton or Frazier were overly troubled by Ali's best punches, despite those punches buckling the knees or worse of the iron chins of the day - i e Liston, Bonavena, Lyle and Foreman. Some things in boxing are very hard to explain. Just look at the bombs Frazier takes literally with a smile in the first and third fight against Ali, but every time Foreman lands something remotely clean he's all over the place. And Frazier's punches don't bother Foreman in the slightest.

 

A more apt comparison would perhaps be Joshua's 19th pro fight (Wlad) against Ali's 19th pro fight (Cooper).

Don't think Joshua looked like a novice at all. He boxed very well until he got just that little bit over eager after flooring Wlad. But he rode out the storm and got back to fighting a very smart fight. Did he show a bit of inexperience at an almost crucial moment? Yes, but that's hardly a chocker for someone with 18 pro fights taking a huge step up in class before tens and tens of thousands rapturous home fans. And it's not more inexperience than Ali showed when he let Cooper tag him with that left hook.

 

I bet you had a good laugh at that one. I was mixing him up with Lyle, yes I am a doofus!
Thanks for the gentle correction, "a bit below them"

 

Ali should have lost his 19th pro fight without his corner breaking the rules.The truth is ( no one wants to admit this) is Ali came back stronger in the 70's he even admits it after he defeats Quarry( wouldnt defeating BETTER guys like Foreman show this in itself ??? SMH ). No version of Ali defeats Joshua ,certianly NO version would ever be favored over sucha fighter that stands 6'6 fast/powerful and athletic,certainly no one that gets dropped by a natural 180 pounder whos slow of hand and foot to boot and hasn't the strongest chin in cooper. You HAVE to use the 70's version of Ali bc without durability and better ring IQ he has no chance......boxing 101

What this poll shows really is just how out of touch boxing fans continue to be....oh well ! lol

 

4. "size and muscularity" do factor into the equation, if not then Roberto Duran or Chocolatito would have been HW champs and no fighters would lift weights etc. Didn't Ali himself benefit from a size advantage in the majority of his bouts?
5. You may be right about be missing the level of skill Ali displayed, as much as I appreciate him I do seem to have a lower opinion of him compared to most boxing enthusiasts. I haven't seen many of his fights though and others I have seen only once in their entirety.
6. I won't take your advice to stop watching boxing, I have enjoyed the sport since I was a kid and only in the last couple of years have I began to look back into the rich history. 1 werewolf armed, bitter nostalgist isn't going to put me off.
7. Open your eyes. Joshua is getting credit and hype from far more knowledgable people who follow boxing on here or are involved such as pros or trainers, he is not a novice no matter how much you wish it were the case.