Ali (1975) Vs John Tate (1979) ?

Looking at the fact that Ali was extremely favoured by the judges at the time, and even managed to get the decision in the Young fight, where Jimmy outboxed the hell out of him, I think there is no chance Tate takes this. As for as the boxing match goes, I think Ali would still do better than Big John if he showed up in shape.

 

Pre-Manila 1975, day at the park for Ali.

After Manila 1975, I think Ali still wins but it's not a day at the park.

 

The version that fought the setup bout with Wepner could and possibly would drop a decision. Remember when they were talking Ali--Tate and Weaver sure ruined that. And at that stage they did not want Muhammad fighting a guy that kept his power for the full 15 rounds.

 

Ali.

 

Fair assessment with which I concur. 1975 Ali boxes Big John's ears off.

 

Tate would win, but if 75 Ali was standing at the end, the judges and the boxing establishment would probably give Ali the decision. Ali was not old in 1975, he was only 33, but Tate was excellent in 79, he was big, mobile, fundamentally sound, well conditioned, and disciplined in the ring. For Ali it would be like fighting a younger, stronger, 6-4, 230 pound version of Doug Jones.

 

I think Ali still pulls it off. While he was past his prime in 1975 he still had quite a bit of gas in the tank. A short time later by 1976-77 it’s a different story.

 

I don’t think there was ever any point in John Tate’s life where he could be competitive with anything close to prime Ali.

Re>Weaver, people act like Tate ran him out of the ring that night but if it hadn’t been for the low blow penalty that Weaver absolutely deserved, it would have been a 2-point fight on two of the cards through 14.

I found an interview online with Ace Miller, Tate’s manager, who said they really didn’t want to fight Weaver, that Tate was supposed to fight Lyle, but Lyle messed that up by getting cold cocked by Lynn Bobo. Y’all know I’m not a Lyle fan but if Lyle had connected on that punch in the 15th, they might have had to take Tate to the morgue.

BTW, Miller said the reason Tate came back so quickly to face Berbick is that Tate was short of cash.

 

Tate could box very neatly, by the book and if Ali was lax to begin with, Big John might take a slight lead over the early rounds (ala Ronnie Lyle).

However, 75 Ali still knew when and how to put the pedal to the metal and pick up his game.

So both a fully prepared or a bit less than ideally prepared Ali takes this either way imo - UD or late TKO…..and without needing any help from the judges.

 

Ali in '75 was nowhere close to his prime tho.

 

If he was serious, which he wasn’t for Wepner, Lyle or Bugner because they were not in his league, he was before Manila. He didn’t just lose it all after Zaire which I think may have been his peak physically and strategically as a fighter. Frazier beat it out of him.

 

Ali's prime ended in 1967. He was in good shape in 1974 and 1975 before Manila, but it still wasn't prime Ali. Not even close.

 

Regardless, IMO John Tate was never in his league unless they’d fought when the rot had really set in like in 1977. If Holmes had tried to unify he would have wasted Tate, it would not have been a competitive fight. Tate was a tragic story but I don’t think he’s close to ATG chops.