This part of his resume really affects his overall rating for me. He went a mere 5 and 3 with a single KO, while feasting on the likes of Dunn, Evangelista and Spinks. He just could't get up for the biggest fights, like a great chance to win the heavy title for the 4th time against Holmes. Brian Neilsen was still beating top fighters when he had as many fights under his ample belt as Ali did during this period. This five year stretch represents a real black mark on his record and all time status.
He also beat what was probably the very best version of Shavers to ever step foot in the ring during this period, so this stretch of activity wasn't an absolutely meaningless addition to his resume after Manila. Earnie had been mightily extended late into round ten against Tiger Williams just nine months before challenging Ali. Earlier in 1976, he jabbed his way to a ten round decision over Henry Clark in Paris after hurting his right hand early, so Shavers was as competition sharpened as he could have been going into Ali's MSG swan song. Muhammad's final successful title defense was a good one, a rugged display of grit that I believe may have taken more out of him than Manila, the FOTC and Kinshasa put together, by virtue of the concussive brain damage I believe Earnie's right inflicted on him.
Ali's 1971 loss to Frazier and 1973 to Norton is 1973. Are more damaging, which is not the right word to use but I couldn't think of a better one. I rank Ail #2 atg heavyweight. I have Louis #1. For the record I have Robinson #4 ATG pound for pound. It's funny how so many of you get your pantiies in a wad when someone disagrees with you. So quit making it sound like Robinson was some bum who was lucky to make it past the first round from 1955-1960. Who by some miracle was able to win a few fights.
The Shavers fight proved two things. 1/ If there were any dipsticks left who did n't believe that Ali had cast iron cojones,here was the proof,once and for all. 2/ Muhammad had slipped so much as a fighter from two or three years previously. The Ali who'd beaten George Foreman,in Zaire,would have used Earnie for target practice. And I say that with all due respect to Shavers.
Ali sucked from 1976 onwards. If you took that Ali in isolation he'd rate as one of the worst heavyweight champions ever. It's a series of tomato can challengers, a couple of bad decisions against decent challengers, and sluggish performances. It's better to forget that period and remember the rest.
I know ali got the decision, but theres no way he beat shavers. Ernie unleashed a major asskicking that night. He did ok for an older guy with a lot of tough fights under his belt. before his first comeback, he really wasn't getting hit that much, but after, he fought a lot of big hitters, and he WAS getting hit a lot. He should have retired. For his health of course
In my opinion,that phase of his career makes no difference to his legacy whatsoever. It was already sealed after the Kinshasa fight. Manilla was the rubber stamp.
I see your point regarding his career in isolation. How would you rate Ali's career,in isolation again for these two phases - 1960-67 1970-75 In each time period,where would you place him on an all time great heavy list ?
