Ali and Frazier Friends?

What Ali did was horrible, that's why Frazier never forgave him.

 

It was a bit of a messed up relationship to be honest. I honestly think Joe would have been content at the start, to be at least sociable in the build up to the fight.
But Ali being Ali, whipped up a bit of a storm, and Joe obviously got peed off.

Never have two fighters had such a rivalry.

 

Frazier had reason to be angry with Ali, but I think the outright poisonous hatred he expressed in his later years had a lot to do with watching Ali's legend become ever more inflated until he was widely seen as a kind of saintly pacifist philosopher-poet while Frazier's own legacy dwindled to the point where many people were only aware of him as an Ali opponent.

 

This is not a Fair & Accurate description of what happened & who bore almost all responsibility for the breech, ongoing abuse, & lack of it being repaired.

Frazier intervened at the highest level of the Nixon administration to get Ali's boxing license renewed.
It was not only to face the best & in his brave self interest: he also gave Ali money during his exile when he struggled.

In return Ali basically betrayed Frazier by being cruel, taunting, & ironically using anti-black racists sterotypes against Joe Frazier.
There is NO excuse for this.
If he wanted to do it just to build up the gate, he could have respectfully gone to Joe & asked his permission to put on a show.
Instead he was deeply cruel-for years.
Between FOTC & their third the Thrilla in Manilla, it was over 4 & a 1/2 years of more or less intense hatefulness.
At best Ali did not *care* if he hurt & tormented his benefactor.

Ali could be borderline brilliant in some of his thoughts & insights, great on civil rights, deeply charismatic, personally warm & kind & widely loved.
But he was essentially an unintegrated personality in basic ways.
Beating his wives.
Having an affair with a 13 year old.

Naive & idealism exploited by the Nation of Islam.
Surreal scene caught on video-Ali speaking at a KKK rally for segregation.
Saying as late as the 1975 Playboy interview (& other forums) things like blacks who dated or married outside of their race were traitors who literally should be

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All Frazier was guilty of is not being deeply forgiving.
But remember Ali not only denied he lost the FOTC, in denial...Plus failed to crawl across the ring to kiss Frazier's feet & proclaim him The Greatest as promised...
He never gave Frazier the deep, humble, heartfelt-or ANY public apology he so richly deserved.
He sent a relative-Frazier rightly said have Ali come to him man to man if he was sincere.

And Ali still would sometimes be provocative.
Oh Frazier's kids needed security for a time due to Ali's cruelty.
So when Frazier told a friend he wanted to throw Ali into the Olympic flame when he lit the torch, that was understandable lol!

I would like to see the final pictures & story, but Ali was definitely, defiantly, & immorally The Bad Guy with Frazier.

 

You can read Muhammad Ali His Life and Times by Thomas Hauser and Ghost of Manilla by Mark Kram and Smokin' Joe: The Life of Joe Frazier by Mark Kram Jr which all explore the relationship/rivalry between Ali and Frazier. In my opinion I think Frazier post Manila probably did get on with Ali and they were civil to one another and at times found each other likeable and Ali at times unknowingly likely agitated Frazier and that would have caused Frazier a bit of resentment. According to Kram Jr's book they did reconcile privately. I still think when they made public appearances post Manila especially in 1989 to promote Champions Forever they were hilarious!

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I don’t know. Neither were really good men by the standard you might hold a hero figure. They were just men, both had there flaws, big ones if you wanted to have a Christian eye on them but really they were like you and me expect they could fight like hell. Joe was a bitter guy, Ali a particularly stupid and cruel one but both could be kind and generous.

 

I told this story before here. While Frazier publicly " took credit" for Ali's condition when my friend met him at an autograph show he adamantly didn't. The story. My best friend and former business partner and I were playing pool at his home. Above his pool table he had an autographed photo of Smokin Joe . I asked my friend how he got it. Knowing I idolize Ali he sheepishly told me that when Frazier autographed his photo he told him you made Ali the way he was ( Parkinsons). Joe said don't say that. Ali didn't cover himself in glory the way he treated Frazier and regretted it. I read that Joe and Butch Davis were on a road trip to Florida and Butch said to Joe you know Ali was a pretty good fighter. Joe left him at the rest stop. If you read extensively about Ali most of his opponents came to like him, if not love him. When Ken Norton had his motorcycle accident he woke up to see Muhammad in his hospital room. Ali was doing magic tricks. Norton jokingly said I'm going to kill this guy.

 

3:29

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To me, this looks friendly on the Frazier side, even though I know they wrestled in the studio; live ("Sit down, Joe").

 

Not true at all. It's very disrespectful and irresponsible to make such claims without a source.

 

Ali did have an affair when he was 30 with a 16 year old that resulted in a child, not good... He's not the first celebrity to be intimate with an underaged woman- see Elvis and Don Johnson. He said and did things as a member of the NOI that he came to regret and repudiate. He slapped his first wife (Sonji Roi) for dressing provocatively when she refused to change into something more modest, not good. That's different than being a wife beater. Ike Turner he wasn't.

 

Pretty much the way most people see the Ali/Frazier relationship, and a lot of truth was imbedded in your word perfect, thought provoking prowse, I have not been on here that long, and this post is without doubt one of the best, honest, and well enunciated I have read.
the bar is very, very high posters.
stay safe buddy.

 

Ali was in the wrong.