Ali and Usyk

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017.


Who beats the best modern era SHWs

  1. Ali only

    10 vote(s)
    37.0%

  2. Usyk only

    3 vote(s)
    11.1%

  3. Neither Ali or Usyk

    12 vote(s)
    44.4%

  4. Both Ali and Usyk

    2 vote(s)
    7.4%
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  1. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Seems clear that the people that think Ali could beat the best modern SWHs should be really pulling for Usyk. And vice versa. Dominant HW champs have virtually always either been larger or harder hitting than average contenders. Ali never had power, but he could rely on very good size in his day. Now he'd be small AND soft hitting, and would have to rely primarily on movement and ring iq. Not a recipe for success in the he division, historically.

    Meanwhile, Usyk is the first guy that is also small and light hitting, with top movement and ring iq, to come along to get hyped up as a potential hw great in a very long time.

    Can't quite figure out why, but it seems the people who most believe Ali would beat everyone don't like Usyk, and many of the people who think Ali couldn't compete nowadays are among his biggest fans.

    So, just thought I would try to test it with a poll, and see any if there were any explanations for why people who think Ali could still dominate today aren't pushing for the one guy who could give them something more concrete to base those arguments in(and why people who don't think he would win are routing for Usyk).
     
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    #1
  2. cslb

    cslb Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Do you think Usyk is as good as prime Ali?
     
    cslb, Apr 21, 2017
    cslb, Apr 21, 2017
    #2
    Jackomano likes this.
  3. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

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    Its called hypocrisy, and apparently those that cant see that they are hypocritical are suffering in the brain department. Ali is a cruiserweight by modern standards, yet he can beat up MODERN superheavy weights and large behemoths, Usyk is a cruiserweight, yet he cant do the same? Usyk has actually been tested against Superheavy weights in the amateurs and bested them all. Also certain posters prop up these ancient heroes as if they were gods, its amazing how people can worship athletes and make them more than what they are.
     
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    #3
    Kevin Willis likes this.
  4. Kevin Willis

    Kevin Willis Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Good post. The other anti-Usyk narrative is comparing him to what Holyfield did in an era with limited to no drug testing.
     
    Kevin Willis, Apr 21, 2017
    Kevin Willis, Apr 21, 2017
    #4
    Todd498 and mirkofilipovic like this.
  5. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    The point isn't about whether he's as good as Ali. The point is, to have a meaningful argument, it helps to have evidence. Right now there's virtually no evidence a hw Ali's size, without power, could win in a shw era. It's never been done before. If Usyk did it, the Ali h2h people could at least point to him and say that proves it could be done. As it is, they can't really point to any ATG, dominant HW as someone who was small and light hitting, but still dominated an era and beat top guys much bigger than him. That's damning evidence against him being able to do it.
     
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    #5
    SmackDaBum and mirkofilipovic like this.
  6. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

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    If I were a fan of Ali, I would be rooting for Usyk to go up to heavyweight and beat all them superheavy's at their own weight class, that would help give credence to the idea that Ali can beat up modern heavyweights.
     
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    #6
  7. cslb

    cslb Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If you feel that Usyk is as good as Ali then your question has merit. If you don't feel that Usyk is good enough to hold Ali's jockstrap then there is no rational reason to try to compare how Usyk would do in this era to how Ali would fare.
     
    cslb, Apr 21, 2017
    cslb, Apr 21, 2017
    #7
    theanatolian likes this.
  8. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I don't think you're understanding the point I'm making, but you're welcome to your own opinion.
     
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    #8
  9. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Yes, this is it exactly.
     
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    #9
    mirkofilipovic likes this.
  10. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali wouldn't be a cruiserweight by today's standards. He weighed 210 pounds for the first Liston fight. He'd still be a heavyweight today, albeit a very small one.
     
    VG_Addict, Apr 21, 2017
    VG_Addict, Apr 21, 2017
    #10
  11. cslb

    cslb Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Maybe I don't understand the point you are trying to make but I think Ali was a once in a generation type of fighter and I see nothing that special about Usyk. If he was a bust at heavyweight would have nothing at all relevant to how Ali would fare in my opinion. Obviously, others may feel differently.
     
    cslb, Apr 21, 2017
    cslb, Apr 21, 2017
    #11
  12. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

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    Small heavyweights like Ali would have been able to slim down to cruiserweight, Usyk could probably gain a few pounds to become a smallish heavyweight as well. They both are 6'3 and have a 78 inch reach.
     
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    #12
  13. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    Ole' Ali beat a prime George Foreman. Exactly WHO has Usyk beaten?
     
    Nay_Sayer, Apr 21, 2017
    Nay_Sayer, Apr 21, 2017
    #13
  14. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Yes, Ali arguably has the greatest hw resume ever for the fighters he beat in his own era. Legacy wise, along with Louis, he's likely to always be the best hw ever.

    But that doesn't go to the point of whether he could cope h2h in the SHW era. Legacy isn't h2h. Usyk winning would provide some evidence that that may be possible.
     
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017
    #14
  15. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Both klits, lewis and bowe imo beat ali. All on their best day of course
     
    Birmingham, Apr 21, 2017
    Birmingham, Apr 21, 2017
    #15
    JoffJoff likes this.
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