Ali and Usyk

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andrewa1, Apr 21, 2017.


Who beats the best modern era SHWs

  1. Ali only

    10 vote(s)
    37.0%

  2. Usyk only

    3 vote(s)
    11.1%

  3. Neither Ali or Usyk

    12 vote(s)
    44.4%

  4. Both Ali and Usyk

    2 vote(s)
    7.4%
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  1. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

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    Child abuse it is then :applaudit:
     
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    #91
    TheyDontBoxNoMore7 likes this.
  2. TheyDontBoxNoMore7

    TheyDontBoxNoMore7 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    And I'm pretty sure I'm about to get banned in 3,2.....
     
    TheyDontBoxNoMore7, Apr 21, 2017
    TheyDontBoxNoMore7, Apr 21, 2017
    #92
    mirkofilipovic likes this.
  3. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    I can see usyk defeating great boxers in the 200-225 pound range.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2022
    SmackDaBum, Apr 21, 2017
    SmackDaBum, Apr 21, 2017
    #93
    Birmingham and GALVATRON like this.
  4. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

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    I think we are both in that ball park.
     
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    mirkofilipovic, Apr 21, 2017
    #94
    TheyDontBoxNoMore7 likes this.
  5. KiwiMan

    KiwiMan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes, well said! This is one area where common sense has flown out of the window in recent years.
     
    KiwiMan, Apr 21, 2017
    KiwiMan, Apr 21, 2017
    #95
    TheyDontBoxNoMore7 likes this.
  6. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Most Hw's are over 235 now,size can make up for skill ...look at what happened in the Breazeale vs Izu fight. I have no doubt Izu defeats Usyk almost always if they fought now. I dont actually consider Usyk Haye or povetkin level both are about 225...I havent seen any fight on Usyk that would really make me believe he makes a better Hw than Trey Morrision who is also about 225. .
     
    GALVATRON, Apr 21, 2017
    GALVATRON, Apr 21, 2017
    #96
  7. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What has Usyk done or achieved to be mentioned in the same sentence as Ali?
     
    Cecil, Apr 21, 2017
    Cecil, Apr 21, 2017
    #97
    TheyDontBoxNoMore7 likes this.
  8. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Big George becomes little George. Without his size and strength advantage, its a far bigger mountain to climb. His main weapon vanishes
     
    Birmingham, Apr 22, 2017
    Birmingham, Apr 22, 2017
    #98
    GALVATRON likes this.
  9. Jim Dean

    Jim Dean Member banned Full Member

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    Neither of them would last two rounds with the Tyson Fury. The best super heavyweight of all time.
     
    Jim Dean, Apr 22, 2017
    Jim Dean, Apr 22, 2017
    #99
  10. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    You've become one of my favorite posters, Kiwi. All well said, and I'd agree with most of what you say.

    My main point I'd still quibble with is the second to the last paragraph. Im not saying that Usyk is or could be as good for his era as Ali was in his. I'm not even really saying one absolutely HAS to like Usyk if they think Ali would still beat any HW in history. My main point is in trying to encourage people to use a little more critical thinking and look beyond superficialities. Usyk is the first boxer that is hyped as a potential force at HW that has most of Ali's characteristics in a long time. If Ali h2h dominance people care about justifying that belief in a rational, non hero worship manner that doesn't revolve predominantly on circular reasoning, then the place to start is by identifying a fighter who shares Alis primary traits as a boxer and who still dominates a modern era. Thus, unless there is some strong other antipathy involved, it would make sense to support Usyk if the belief that Ali could dominate any era is central to ones boxing beliefs, and if one desires to rely on an intellectually grounded argument.
     
    andrewa1, Apr 22, 2017
    andrewa1, Apr 22, 2017
    #100
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  11. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    It's really not that deep Ellerbe. I had a issue with a matter of logical inconsistency that's bothered me for a long time, a point to make from it. I think it's helpful to air it, and this is the forum for it. See my reply to Kiwi. As far as the race aspect, of anything, I'm hoping this thread helps(however incrementally) the matter and maybe makes people less likely to use race to make up their mind about whether to support or oppose a fighter.
     
    andrewa1, Apr 22, 2017
    andrewa1, Apr 22, 2017
    #101
  12. ellerbe

    ellerbe Loyal Member Full Member

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    Andrew, the issue is far worse with the other side. If you're going to call out a problem that you see, then you should be looking at the bigger problem. Also I don't think people necessarily dislike Usyk. Usyk is a bad example, Usyk has looked bad in his last 2 fights. Yes he clearly won them, but he showed major flaws against subpar opposition. I think most of us overhyped Usyk, I don't think it has anything to do with race. But for other fighters race can obviously be involved from both sides. And your thread isn't helping anyone. As long as there is one side being consistently racist and hateful, the other side will retaliate.
     
    ellerbe, Apr 22, 2017
    ellerbe, Apr 22, 2017
    #102
  13. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    My thread should apply to all "sides". Those who use figleaf argument of modernism for K's beating everyone and rely on size arguments shouldn't be supporting Usyk, either.
     
    andrewa1, Apr 22, 2017
    andrewa1, Apr 22, 2017
    #103
  14. ellerbe

    ellerbe Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good point actually. Me was wrong, you was right.
     
    ellerbe, Apr 22, 2017
    ellerbe, Apr 22, 2017
    #104
    andrewa1 likes this.
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