I have Joe Louis at #1. The difference between Louis and Ali is very small and you could argue either. I just like Louis better because of his incredible consistency; Ali has himself to blame (untrained) for the first Norton loss. You could say the same about Louis vs Schmeling, but i think him training less for that one is being a bit exxagarated; he certainly wasn't overweight or tired into the late rounds; Schmeling just beat him and that is that. He never made the same mistake again, though. On the other hand, Ali was 10 pounds overweight against Norton and came in horrible shape more often (Young for instance).
And received gift decisions far more than Louis. You could argue that Louis lost Godoy I or the Walcott, but neither was a robbery and Louis also completely destroyed them in rematches. Ali never did that against Norton or Frazier.
The Young and Shavers fight were both close fights, not robbery's. You could argue Norton 3 was but let's not get ahead of ourselves. By the time all of these fights Ali was pretty much finished as a fighter. The last great performance against top opposition was Foreman. Frazier by the time of their third fight had little left, but Ali brought out the best of him. Ali before he became too old was the greatest Heavyweight of all time in my opinion. Incredible fighter.
I have Louis at No1. The difference between them is fine but I give the edge to Louis based on his level of dominance.
But you have to take into consideration that Norton and Frazier were certainly better than Godoy, and were arguably better than Walcott.
Louis did not loose Godoy I. If he had you would not have heard the last of it today. The Walcott robbery is in no way clear cut. Louis outlanded Walcott and forced the fight throughout. You could make a good case that he won.
Personally, if Ali hadn't been exiled I don't think we would be having this discussion. If neither fighter had had an lay-off (if Louis hadn't had to go to WWII and Ali hadn't been exiled because of refusal to be inducted) I think the only question would be whether Ali or SRR was the best boxer p4p to ever step into a ring. That Ali was the number one HW would probably more or less be taken for granted. Louis was almost 28 and had had 20 title defenses when he was inducted while Ali was 25 and yet had to reach his peak. In other words we don't know exactly how good he would have become, and taking into account how good he was right before the exile that is a truly frightening prospect. But Louis record is very impressive, though, as was the man himself. His punching repertoir was probably the most complete of any heayweight.
I agree that it is much closer than many make out. I have Ali at #1. Kicked more top drawer backsides and has a marginally more impressive skillset. It is as close as many have said, I think, the difference for me? Ali is a better fighter, marginally but clearly in my view.
Composite punching and maybe workrate aside, in what areas does Louis outstip Ali? Generalship? No. Adaptablility? No. Footwork? No. Speed? In no way. Chin? No. Durability? Not in my view. Stamina? Not proven, certainly.
I have Louis more consistent and dominant I felt he was a better Champion he still holds record for most title defences.
Consistency? Yes. Louis never lost to a fighter who was not able to win the championship outside of the fight with Louis, even when he was a shell. Throw in the dubious Walcott win if you like. If you were not a top 20 all time heavyweight, you were screwed, seemingly against any version of Louis. Finishing ability? Yes, Enough said. Ability to adapt? Yes, Nobody ever achieved anythig against Louis in a rematch. Once he knew how you moved you were ****e*d Competition? No, It must be taken into account however that Ali's competition are rated primarily on the fact that they had success against him. Louis's competition were dismised properly and so they were devalued as fighters. Ali-Joe you had this thing called the bum of the month club. Louis-Yes kid you would have been one of them.
People seem to forget that. He was a human ****ing buzzsaw the second time around. Ali also never proved himeslf against fighters as large as Ali did. Buddy Baer, anyone?