Ali As The #1 Heavyweight...

This is true, but it also true that he fought in a weaker era. Certainly the men who beat Ali would have thrived in the era, with the exception of Spinks, perhaps.

I'll assume you're excluding the very green version of Louis (who might have lost to Tua or Buster Douglas for example) and conceed this. But again, this rest upon consistancy. I don't think that consistancy is as important in determining how good a fighter is - what we are currently discussing - as the attributes i've listed above. Though I conceed its relevance as a factor in determining mental strength.

OK.

Fair enough, but Ali was capable of making massive adustments after one round (Williams, Foreman) as well as whilst under the type of pressure that would wilt almsot all fighters (Frazier III).

Louis is adaptable, Ali is more adaptable.

 

Actually:

ALI: You think you would have whipped me?!

LOUIS: When I was fighting we had a thing called "The Bum Of The Month Tour".

ALI: You callin' me a bum?!

LOUIS: You would have been, on the tour.

This is my favourite quote in boxing.

 

Ali's behaviour outside of the ring was probably marginally better than Louis'. Neither is relevant to this thread as far as I can see.

 

We would have to speculate, of course, but it's hard for me to imagine Foreman failing to lift the title either in the pre-Louis Baer/Schmeling/Sharkey era or the post Louis pre-Marciano era. As to Norton, he may not have been as succesful but we can agree that he would have been one of the better fighters Louis fought had he done so.

To a degree. For example, Buster Douglas would have beaten many great fighters that night but isn't fit to fight on a Joe Louis undercared as a general rule. But once you are past a certain point (dominance at title level)a more detailed analysis is called for.

Such an analysis favours Ali for reasons i've already touched upon.

...first of all I'd dispute this as far as Frazier goes, a great, great fighter in his own right. But I conceed the general point.

However, it is a little unfair. Louis is arguably the greatest puncher at any weight that has ever lived (he has only Langford and Tyson for company in my view) so obviously adaption on his part may be more decisive.

Louis often failed to adapt across the 15 round distance for example. He sticks to the fight plan. Ali creates his own fight plan and is capable of changing it at will. Hence his superior adaptability.

 

You really doubt it? I don't rate Foreman anything like as highly as most, but I consider him marginally more affective than Max Baer, who mounted a reign of terror pre-Louis. Foreman would have struggled with many of the same fighters as Baer did, but I think he might do as well/better against the same sort of comp.

In a rematch? Maybe, although, I think that Wills, Langford, Jackson, Farr(!) and Hollyfield are all examples of fighters who reside outside my top 10 that would create problems for Louis in a rematch. Frazier is not a bad shout though, I don't dispute that Frazier would be a reasonable shout to get blasted out (maybe first time) - it's just not that clear cut.