Ali beating Foreman was a more incredible performance than Frazier beating Ali

Making quite an impression, of course.:smoke I mean, sure, I've heard of good McCallum impersonators and of good Ferry impersonators, but both of them...?

 

On paper it looks like Ali's win over Foreman is the better victory but to be honest Big George was made to order for Ali. All Ali basically had to do was play it smart until Foreman got tired and that's exactly what he did. Foreman looked like a big strong amateur against a seasoned veteran. The fact that George fought a stupid fight and couldn't do anything with an opponent who spent most of the time on the ropes covering up exposed Foreman. Frazier on the other hand was fighting a bigger faster sharpshooter than himself. Granted Ali was coming off a couple of fights after an imposed layoff but he was still formidable and possessed a varied arsenal that Joe would have to overcome. Plus Joe had to punch up at Ali which is tougher than punching down...or straight. Styles make fights and Joe's style was very difficult for Ali while George's wasn't. I'm not saying Foreman was an easy win but let's face it, it wan't as tough as the FOTC which is why I'm giving the nod to Frazier here.

 

:yep

 

Really, I think both options here have great merit. But just in order to keep up the discussion, I'll offer another perspective:

Consider the scenario that Joe's legs won't let him close the distance as planned with Ali, just as Ali soon discovered he couldn't keep the distance with Foreman. And instead of continuing a losing battle he starts trying to draw Ali in and then counter. Like Duran against Hagler more or less. Astonishingly he's succesful with this tactic and pulls of the win.

Had he won this way, I don't think any perfomance in HW history would have come close. And that's why Ali's perfomance in Zaire is so astonishing. Beating a very, very dangerous opponent on your own terms is difficult enough, but beating him on his terms? Now that's the stuff of legends.

 

Good summary.

 

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You used the word incredible. Thus, I think it's true. I think Bokaj and Duodenum covered it well. Ali did not just out-fight, out-box, and out-smart Foreman conclusively, all while taking a barrage of body-punches from Foreman. He also knocked out Foreman, arguably one of the most durable HWs of all time. Lyle had Foreman in danger, but never really close to being counted out. Young dropped Foreman when George was exhausted, and he arguably slipped. In his second career, nobody came close to really putting Foreman on his backside. And this was against competition like Cooney, Holyfield, Morrison, Moorer, and Briggs. A fairly respectable list of punches.

In the Facing Ali documentary, Ken Norton said that he thought Foreman was going to "Break Ali down" with Ali taking so many body-punches on the ropes. Such punishment & tactics took tremendous will.

 

The one who fell in the pool was Walter "Wally" Bartleman of the London Evening Standard, and the one who made the "walk on water" crack was Reg Gutteridge from the arch-rival, the London Evening News. Two great guys who are no longer with us, but will never be forgotten by those privileged to know them.

 

What Ali did to Foreman was a matter of class. When you see it in retrospect, you think, despite the odds beforehand, "how could it have ended in any other way." Ali was too strong.

What Frazier did that night took a Herculean effort. It took all his will, his skill, his upbringing, his bitter nature, that dark deep nook inside his heart, every grudge he ever held. It flowed out of him like a long-kept secret. He cried out against the world.

I have that sometimes, when a boxer really gives their all, lays who they are bare. It's like you're seeing something personal. Something you were really not supposed to see.

 

Ali - Foreman :deal

BIG George was 40-0 when Ali dethroned him.

Ali was 31-0 when Frazier beat him.

 

Exactly.

 

No one Gave Ali a chance against the Monster Foreman,but the Frazier v Ali fight both were given a real chance.!!!!

 

I voted Frazier beating Ali. Frazier should never have beaten Ali if you go by skill level.