Ali did beat Floyd Patterson X2, does this prove Tyson can never win VS Ali?

Foreman hoooooooooooooooooooook.

 

Angelo Dundee would have whipped Cus D'Amato in a street fight..proving conclusively that Ali would beat Tyson.

 

Patterson obviously had a bad back for the first fight and in the second fight gave Ali some problems. Lets not forget Patterson is a blown up MW and his HW arsenal isn't in the same league as Tysons

 

While I agree with you in principal, I think that Ali's perfomance in the first fight gets criminally underrated due to this bad back excuse (it only gave out when he was already a beaten fighter). One of the best boxing master classes in HW history IMO.

 

true. and to answer your question, no. it doesn't prove tyson couldn't win

however, this proves...[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8ZkkHw3sHs[/ame]

that foreman could never win

 

It may have only given out later but I wonder if it hindered him from the start. Ali looked phenomenal though

 

Floyd was indeed taller than Mike, shared the same reach, similar hand speed, and Patterson punched extremely well for his size. The opportunity for a visual comparison of how Tyson would look against Ali is there in the Ali-Patterson bouts. Because Mike was much the harder puncher though, I don't think Muhammad would be as inclined to allow Tyson the opportunities to unload that Floyd had. Ali seemed to carry Patterson at times in both matches. With a more dangerous opponent, he wouldn't do this so much.

The Patterson bouts and JQ fights show what a dreadful deficit a 71 or 72 inch reach could be against somebody like Ali, even with the kind of speed and quickness carried by Floyd and Jerry. (Woroner's staged superfight between Ali and Marciano offers more visual contrast.) Frazier pulled it off once with relentless pressure, drive and a ceaseless body attack. Tyson didn't have that kind of stamina, and he could be frustrated by clinching, an Ali specialty. The seventh round was the latest Mike ever stopped anybody in, although he did floor Douglas in the eighth. However, Ali stopped Blue Lewis and Lyle in 11. His first match with Patterson ended in 12, the same round he stopped Mildenberger and Ellis in, and he chose not to knock out Mathis in those final two rounds.

 

In their first fight, Patterson actually tried to draw Ali in and counter, rather than putting on sustained pressure of high intensity. Tyson would of course choose to go after him from the off, so the fight would have another look to it.

 

Exactly, Patterson fought Ali more like how Haye & Chagaev fought Wlad, as counter-punchers, than how Tyson fights ferociously & leads.

 

:rofl :thumbsup

 

I haven't seen the second fight. I'll take a look at latter. I have seen the first fight, since this is what we consider a prime Ali.
There are points in this bout where Patterson is able to touch Ali and at times make Ali miss. Considering that Patterson was at the tail end of his better years and he could make contact with Ali what could he do in his prime?, or for that matter what could a prime Tyson do in his prime against Ali?
Tyson is faster and stronger than Patterson not only at the time of the fight but overall.
He's going to land hard punches. Ali is going to be open for them and they are going to land. More than Patterson. Are they going to stop Ali? Maybe, Maybe not, but they are going to slow him down.
Considering the first fight and the fact that Fraizer gave Ali all he could handle including a loss. The physical evadance shows that the most likely result of Ali/Tyson would be a Tyson victory.

 

Rubbish post.

Patterson was 30 and would go on for another 7 years. He had perhaps slowed down a bit, but very little and hardly landed a meaningful shot on Ali. Guys like Tillis and Tucker gave Tyson more trouble than Floyd gave Ali in their first meeting. And if they could land on Tyson and frustrate him at spells, would the mich faster and sharper Ali do etc, etc?

At the same phase of his career that Ali lost to Frazier, Tyson was getting his ass handed to him by a Holyfield that was considered washed out. Six years earlier he had been outclassed by an unremarkable contender in Douglas, who won mainly with his jab and right cross.

"The physical evidence" is not in Tyson's favour here.

And now, all that's left is too wait for the excuses for Tyson's losses...op

 

Tyson needed a poo and a blunt. And a significantly better father.