Ali ending his career.

Great question. I agree with you - he should have retired after the Rumble in the jungle. After that, he'd proved himself great beyond question, made enough money and still had his health intact. If he'd retired then I'm sure we'd have enjoyed many years of Ali as a boxing analyst and TV personality.

The 14 fights after 'The Rumble in the jungle' definitely contributed heavily to his physical decline. Just look at some of the fights:

Ron Lyle TKO 11 - A tough fight against the hard hitting Lyle. Why bother?
Joe Frazier RTD 14 - The 'Thrilla in Manilla' was one of the most brutal heavyweight fights of all time and 'the closest thing to death' according to Ali. He'd already beaten Frazier and was guaranteed to rank above him due to his win over Foreman alone so I think that this fight was unnecessary.
Ken Norton UD15 - Unnecessary for the same reasons as the 'Thrilla in Manilla'
Earnie Shavers UD15 - 15 rounds with arguably the hardest punching heavyweight of all time. Again - not a wise move at that stage of Ali's career. And what did he prove? We all knew he was better than Shavers.

Ultimately, the self belief that made Ali so great contributed to his downfall. The same thing is happening to Evander Holyfield now. He should have retired after losing to Lennox Lewis in my opinion.

 

Probably after Foreman, defineatly after Frazier 3.

 

I've thought about this. Here are my options from best to worse.

1. After Ali-Frazier III. One of the best and most punishing fights. A chapter closed.

2. After Ali-Norton III. Many argue that Ali didn't deserve the nod, but he got it. In this case, he has now beaten every man he has fought. Another chapter closed.

3. After Earnie Shavers. Defended the title against one of the hardest punchers ever to lace up a pair of gloves. Go out on top.

4. After Ali-Spinks I. A bad beating by an unremarkable fighter who should not have even competitive with Ali.

5. After Ali-Spinks II. Becomes a 3 time world champion. Nothing left to prove. Still beaten every man he faced.

6. After Ali-Holmes. Ali lost every round on every scorecard and failed to answer the bell. He took a sound beating and was further damaged.

7. After Ali-Berbick. The fight that ended his career came several fights too late. If you've seen the pre-fight conference, you hear him slur the words "Do I sound like I have brain damage to you?" After the fight, you can barely understand what he is saying.


Just my thoughts.

 

To add to the debate, we had this discussion recently on the classic forum...

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16729

 

ali reached his pinnacle of popularity and greatness after foreman BUT his legacy was greatly improved by his fights after. i rate ali above robinson p4p because in the twilights of his career he was STILL able to beat the best. norton was still near his peak, as was shavers (who had probably his best fight against ali), frazier was the best he'd been in years due to his hatred of ali alone, and lyle was as good as he'd ever be. these weren't the greatest heavies of all time but they were the greatest of THEIR time and in the golden era of the division. For my money, it was the fact that ali could take these men on, knock out most of them, while his speed, (relative) power and reflexes had left him. that's what made ali so brilliant, even while he wasn't at his best, even when he wasn't really close to it, he dug deep and won against some all time greats and monsters of the divison.

 

btw, OBVIOUSLY, he should have left after spinks 2. at the latest...even after shavers would have been just as good.

 

That's when I would say he should have retired, after the second Spinks fight. He had won the title a third time, and accomplished all he was going to accomplish.

In fact, if my memory is correct, he did retire briefly after that fight. He should have stayed retired.

 

From an accomplishments point of view then you can make a strong case for Spinks 2 but a lot of the damage had already been done by then. I'd rather he got out much sooner with his health intact.

 

Oh come on!! Its not about seeing into the future, it was obvious Ali was getting 'punchy' from 1976 onwards.

 

After Frazier III.

 

I'd argue that even Frazier III was unnecessary; I know it was 1-1 with Frazier after 2 fights (and with Norton) but Ali didn't need to prove anything as he beat the man (Foreman) that beat the men (Frazier and Norton).

I remember seeing 'The Thrilla in Manilla' and was astounded by the brutality of it; both Ali and Frazier took too much punishment that night.

 

According to the documentary

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, when Ali was asked about whether he has any regrets about boxing due to his disability, he responded that if he didn't box he would still be a painter in

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.

taken from wikipedia

 

Manila.

 

"Ali ending his career" ... no way .... is he really retires?