Ali/Frazier II -Your Card

Okay, first of all this isn't on the consistency of a John Ruiz at his worst. Secondly, I can't blame Ali. Thirdly, I said the ref did a horrible job. Forth, Frazier did so little and Ali finished strong virtually every round. Any potential Joe round almost feels like a draw or a Joe round besides the two ones he wins in a row toward the end of the fight. The ref did a bad job, he also helped Joe in the 2nd round. Ali clearly wins this fight. That's for sure.

Especially since he didn't lose. Virtually all the ring side writers were saying how Ali had the fight. I would love to see a punch-track for the fight. Ali hurts Joe just as many times as Joe hurts him while landing 3X as many punches.

How do you penalize Ali on this? Do you go about it consistently? Do you go about it like giving Joe the closest rounds?

I noticed this, too. Ali was being flashy and throwing little pitty pats but he lands and scores too consistently. Ali does this mostly throughout the early rounds, however he does hurt Joe later in the fight around round 9 I believe. He steps his game up with the power shots in the end of the fight.

He could have knocked him down. If you complain about the officiating from holding then you must say that he made this blunder that helped Joe out. He was just incompetent in general.

I was thinking the same for you. Round 5 was almost a draw but I felt that Ali finished strong with this right hands toward the end of the round. That's what my notes say. Round 6 was a clear Ali round, no question. At least that's what my notes say. I don't think the fight is very close. It's a UD for nothing. Plenty of writers had Ali up towards the end of the fight. One judge had it 8-3 and even gave Joe the 12th round. We both gave that round to Ali although it was close. You got to give credit for ring generalship and punch output. Ali hurts Joe as much as Joe hurts him while landing 3X as many punches. He makes him look bad and spots and finishes rounds strong. If this fight has controversy, then so does FOTC as for as I'm concerned.

 

I am sorry, I did score round 6 for Ali, my mistake. Round 5 is Frazier's round in my opinion. He was busier that round and landed more than Ali. Ali did have a nice finish to that round but I didn't think it was enough. I think neither fighter was hurt all that much; ther was a lot of holding. I think FOTC was more clear than this fight.

 

I had Fight II 7-5 and Fight I 8-6-1, but a bigger margin for Frazier if scored on 10-must.

 

To me, the only controversy comes from the holding and bad reffing, really. I think Ali wins the fight pretty easily to me. Round 5 was a close round, Joe did some good work but Ali finishes really strong with good big right hands. Joe landed more cleaner shots than he had usually been but Ali still landed more for the round and I think I remember the last minute of the round Ali making up real good round. To me, the round could be a draw.

I just don't think Joe gets off enough in the fight and Ali finishes the rounds strong. His ring generalship and punch out-put make it clear to me he won the fight. The fight is as clear as the FOTC in my eyes. The FOTC all changed really in that 15th round, in this fight Ali was just picking up points in this fight.

I think Futch and Frazier should've complained a bit more with the holding at the actual time. I wonder how much more Ali held in regards to the first fight. It's clear he holds more and is intent to. I think as the fight wanders a bit more he doesn't do too bad of a job with it. Let's just say I have seen far worse. Joe wasn't smoking quick enough to catch him while coming in the same way he had for the first fight. That left hook was all bit of little use and that's his missile punch which doesn't require to be thrown in close quarters.

Larry Merchant gave Ali the 1st fight according to Cossell.

Certainly not the most credible one. Seriously, I can't see how you can score Frazier the fight. If you do you must hate Ali. It's like scoring Ali the win for the 1st fight.

 

I think it was two hacks at ringside had Ali ahead in 1971, out of about 35. I think more had Frazier ahead in 1974 (I know of three). There's always one or two for almost every fight, even Everett-Escalera. :yep

 

Not sure mate, I don't buy it any more. Didn't a fair few at ringside have Valuev ahead though, despite the impression we got on telly?

 

I'm talking about the New York Times. And I was a New Yorker.

The other posted who feels they're equally definitive on the 1 point system. Go tell him he's wrong.

One judge had it 8-3 for Ali going in the 12th. He scored the last round to Joe which both me and OBC scored for Ali.

Referee Arthur Mercante score FOTC 8-6. Artie Aidala scored it 9-6.

Tony Castellano 7-4 | judge: Jack Gordon 8-4 - both judges scored Ali/Frazier II that. So Jack Gordon thought that the II fight was more decisive and so did Tony Castellano (Equally) on that point scoring system when comparing their cards to Artie Aidala's which is definitely the fairest scoring by a judge from FOTC. So argue with them too.

I also know boxing writer named Larry Merchant had Ali way ahead saying Joe had to knock him out to win. This was by round 10 according to Cossell. So no, I don't think most scoring is off or the widest you can find.

 

I misinterpreted that. My bad.

Right the ref had it 11-4 and Perez had it 6-5. Maybe Perez was subconsciously penalizing Ali in his head. I don't know but I do know that both of those ref scores are the worst, especially the 11-4 score. That's just a ridiculous score. Ali wins a lot of early rounds, that's crazy for him to only win 4. The two sensible judges had the II fight more definitive or at least equally definitive. I'm not going to address the ridiculous scoring by that ref for FOTC. So according to the judges the II fight was more definitive a win for Ali. It's at least equally as one I don't see the controversy or much denying this.
So instead of going on about this I'd like to see your cards for the 2 fights.

You can do the 1 point system and the 10 point system. I'd like to see how your scored FOTC and then the II fight.

 

You can't be serious. If you use the officials as an example, you use all of them, not the ones you agree with.




For 11-4 Frazier, See 8-3 Ali.