ali from zaire vs dempsey of toledo

One of the greatest quotes Fraizer said regarding Ali:
"The man has two hands just like me".

I think Dempsey would have the same mindset, and we would see
the following:

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I agree with this in general. Don't know if it would be a one sided drubbing, but Ali wins this clearly IMO.

 

Or more probably:

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OK lets start with whats important and whats not:

Pressure
For my money Joe Frazier was a little more effectve at cutting the ring than Jack De3mpsey and he aplied more constant pressure later into the fight. If Ali survives into the later rounds then Dempsey is less likley to wear him down with a constant attack than Frazier though the Gibbons fight shows that he could certainly give Ali problems later in the fight.

Left hook
I think it was Mendoza who said that Frazier's left hook was an uzi while Dempseys was a 50 calibre rifle. While Dempse would not be as busy with the left hook as Frazier he would probably do a lot more damage when it did land. Though it would not be as much of a fight winning punch as it was for Frazier we might see a Henry Cooper scenario.

Clinching and other illegal tactics
In Dempsey Ali would be up against sombody who knew how to use illegal tactics to counter his own. If Ali holds Dempsey he is getting punched in the kidneys or the nuts. Dempseys compact punching would make it verry dificult for Ali to initiate clinches without taking punishment. This might knock a hole in Ali's gameplan for countering Dempseys assult. If the referre is liberal in allowing clinching then Dempsey will undoubtedly be looking to test his limits himself.

Finishing
While Dempsey did not have all the tools that FRazier used to such effect in the FOTC (see pressure) he was a far superior finisher than Frazier or anybody else that Ali ever shared a ring with. Dempsey winning this fight by knockout is not out of the question.

Defence
I would consider Dempseys ability in slipping punches to be at least on a par with that of Frazier and perhaps a bit more polished in some respects.

 

great anaylisis ben

 

Cheers.

 

Beating a slob in Jess Willard who was a soft 245 pounds in Toledo back in '19 is no real great ordeal........ Dempsey was peaked; Willard was old.......

Jess Willard was a farmer / cowboy more so than a real fighter...... Willard had a decent jab and a hard right..... However, Willard also had NO defense...... Willard was not a technically skilled fighter at all..........

Jack Dempsey knew Willard was just a lummox in the ring........... And, be real here, Dempsey threw many WILD punches and left himself open for counters when he KO'd Willard.......... But Willard was incapable of countering since he was so slow.......

The Ali of '74 and at age 32 still *****-slaps Dempsey all around the ring pretty easy........
bbb

MR.BILL:rasta

 

I think Frazier's left probably was sharper and overall more devastating than Dempsey's. Dempsey KO'd smaller guys who on film look more primitive defensively than Frazier's opponents. Frazier blew a skilled, durable 200 pounder out of the water with his. It destroyed one of the greatest LHWs ever, while Dempsey had more trouble with a lesser LHW in Carpentier.

And don't think that Frazier wasn't rough in clinches. The edge belongs to Dempsey here, but still...

As for defence, I just don't see Frazier being tagged by Firpo like that. A high guard is a MUST coming forward against Ali. You need your gloves to defend against that jab and right.

 

Much to the contrary, Dempsey threw only 20 punches a round during the late rounds of the Gibbons fight. The was against a lightheavyweight who is much less tiring to fight than a 6'3 215lbs man. Dempsey must either build up a huge lead (with knockdowns) or win by knockout, because i can hardly see him win a round past the 8th.

Agree, and this is Dempsey's problem. Ali is more vulnerable to a constant but lighter hitting pressure fighter like Frazier or Marciano, than to an explosive and harder hitting, but less intensive guy like Dempsey or Tyson

Bull****. Gibbons and Tunney had no trouble tying Dempsey up and Ali is more skilled and strong than both of them. This magic short punch technique that neutralizes clinching exists only in your head, or it would've been observed the last 100 years since watchable film came about.

No doubt Dempey is a better finisher than Frazier. I'm not sure if i'd call him a better finisher than Foreman and Liston though.

Considering Tunney (a lightheavyweight) beat Dempsey so bad that he had to be lead out of the ring after only 10 rounds, TWICE, i wouldn't rate his defensive abilities so high. Sharkey landed plenty on him winning most of the rounds and Firpo nearly knocked him out, with wild amateurish swings, mind you.




Overal, i simply don't see Ali losing to a Dempsey style of fighter. Even the 1974 version. His combination of durability, survival instinct, holding and tricks was too much. He's a BIG step up from anyone Dempsey ever faced or beat. Dempsey had a great left hook that will see him have success early but i think it will become more and more one-sided after 5 rounds, to an 11th round TKO. Of course, if Ali lays on the ropes like he did against Foreman, he's gonna lose.

 

Good post. I'll agree with it bar one thing: I don't think Dempsey's left hook was harder than Frazier's. When Frazier's hook hit guys cleanly funny things happened.