ali from zaire vs dempsey of toledo

Sure, he was past his prime, but had recently beaten Bonavena.

And as was often the case with Ali concerning point at that stage of the fight looks were deceiving, since he often gave away rounds playing/feeling his opponent out. He was about even on points with Folley and Liston at a similar stage, and far behind Lyle.

It's better just to watch the fight. It's pretty clear that Ali controls it, bar some moments (mainly in the fifth). At times he looks like he's enjoying a sparring session.

 

I will have to watch it again.

 

The main reason to do so is because Floyd bowes out with such a relatively good perfomance. He looks really good for a 37-year old. I thought that was a very worthy way to end a great career.

 

i had patterson winning the 2nd Al fight.


Even ali admits it himself "Because of his age(37), I thought patterson would be finished after 2 rounds. But he was in superb condition. If I had listened to the press...patterson would have given me a even worse licking the first 5 rounds"

 

If we disregard Dempsey's and Ali's worst performances and simply look at the relative strengths and weaknesses of both men, I don't think Dempsey wins this one. Jack would certainly have his moments early as he was a fast starter unlike say Joe Frazier. Ali would have to expect some early fireworks as Dempsey would be looking to end it quick. However, the Ali of 74 was still much better than anything Jack ever had to deal with (Or Louis, or Johnson, or Marciano for that matter). The combination of size, skill, reflexes and chin would see Ali through. It would be no cakewalk that's for sure, at least for the first 3-5 rounds but after that Ali would outbox Jack to a decision.

 

Patterson was never gonna beat Ali...... I don't care if it were '65 or 1972....... Not gonna happen........ HOWEVER! I will say that Patterson did age gracefully...... He looked very good and spry at age 37 and 188 pounds against a 218 pound Ali........ In truth, Patterson still had lotsa' fight left in him....... He could've carried on until age 40 had he wanted to.... But Patterson was small and dudes like "Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Quarry, Shavers, Lyle & Norton" were tearing up the division from '72 to '76....... Patterson would've had a VERY ROUGH time competing with them dudes in the mid-70's at damn near age 40......... Patterson did the right thing by walking away after his TKO loss to Ali in '72............ Peace.......

MR.BILL

 

So let me get this straight. The guy who fought in easily the best heavyweight division of all time and easily faced some of the biggest punchers in heavyweight history while never being KO'ed in his career would get KOed by Jack Dempsey? And almost 30% of the people that voted so far believe this while almost 42% believe Dempsey would win?

Personally, I find Dempsey to be overrated especially when ever H2H gets mentioned. Dempsey's durability was overrated, his chin was worse than Frazier & Foreman and his stamina was easily inferior to Frazier's. He doesn't have the relentless pressure style a Frazier or Marciano possess that Ali would be far more vulnerable to. What makes things really bad for Dempsey is his stamina is not at the same level of Frazier or Marciano. Sure, I'll give Dempsey an advantage in handspeed as he through quick strong combinations. And Dempsey could launch forward and had great footspeed and to launch at his attack. However, if I remember correctly a Gene Tunney (One of the weakest punching HW champs of all time) knocked Dempsey while going backwards. Don't even need to bring up Firpo or Flynn with those scenarios. And on top of Dempsey's durability and other defiiences, he never possessed the single punch power of many of the guys Ali fought let alone a Marciano or Frazier. And in no way was his left hook better. Dempsey is truly an example of a fighter who was idolized for being the perfect white champion that American wanted... Okay I won't bring race. How about this, Dempsey was the first celebrity boxer that revolutionized the sport. He was insanely popular and the most popular boxer before and after his time till Ali (Within the 70's). Everyone just seemed to love Dempsey and it's a little insane to me how almost everyone thought he was superior to Louis even up till the 50's/60's. He was definitely incredibly celebrated and loved. There was something about him.

 

I love the tale of Jack Dempsey, but his style and level of skill pitted up against a "Modern" fighter of Ali's ability would be too much for Dempsey in a time machine...... Nothing that Dempsey would do in the ring would shock a guy like Ali........... Ali smacks Dempsey all around for 10, 12 or 15 rds.......... A possible stoppage by Ali is even possible as well........... Dempsey rarely gets in on Ali and falls way behind in the scoring....... Nuff said......

MR.BILL

 

Well, he looks quite light on the feet in the Frazier rematch to me. But why just concentrate on what Dempsey could do to Ali? He would be coming in with low hands and unprotected face against one of the sharpest shooter ever. Ali would not only be the sharpest puncher Dempsey had ever met, he would be one of the most powerful as well. Dempsey won't get much work done at mid-range, but had to get through those punches to try and get things done at the inside - where Ali would tie him up more often than not. His face would be looking like a warzone after a couple of rounds.

This is the heart of the matter: Dempsey only met one opponent that was even close to Zaire Ali in quality, and that opponent outclassed him twice. Ali beat the most durable of fighters (Chuvalo, Bonavena), the fastest (Patterson), the most unrelenting (Frazier) and the most powerful and deadly (Liston, Foreman). He proved his pedigree without doubt. What did Dempsey beat in comparison? Did he beat even one opponent that came close to Zaire Ali's skill, speed, smartness and durability? No. Hell, few of the guys he beat could even compare with Ali in terms of power and strength.

To claim with any degree of certainity that Dempsey would beat Zaire Ali borders on ignorance IMO. To say that Dempsey would KO him is not serious. Anything can happen, but to say that it would...

 

Bojak, u do realise that the Dempsey who fought Tunney was not even half the fighter he had been?

 

Of course he was past him prime, but he was getting a boxing lesson twice and it was not like was shot. So the guy that was outboxed twice by Dempsey would 3-4 years earlier beat Zaire Ali, possibly by KO? I don't buy it.

 

While he wasnt shot the first thing a fighter looses ids their footwork.

Dempseys legs had gone and that was possibly the most important atribute for beating Tunney or indeed Ali.

At the end of the day if you are going to cite fights where Dempsey is far removed from his peak in suport of your argument it is only fair that the reverse is allowed in suport of Dempsey. You cant cite fights where Dempsey was a shell then cry foul when the reverse happens.

 

Sure, but he never fought anything comparable to Ali while at his peak. If he had beat fighters like Tunney then, bringing up his actual fights with Tunney would just be a waste of time, but he didn't.

So, that leaves us with the question: Would a four-five years younger still active Dempsey do that much better against Zaire Ali than the older Dempsey did against Tunney? It calls for some big speculation, but so does saying that the Dempsey who built his reputation on the Willards and Fultons of this world would beat the man who built his on the Foremans and Fraziers.