Ali H2H

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017.


Would Ali lose to any hw in history more often than not

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    33.3%

  2. No

    18 vote(s)
    66.7%
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  1. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Joff did a good similar thread on classics, but this is decidedly NOT a classics thread. It's meant to test general boxing fans h2h values, and includes a poll.

    I'm interested, Ali seems to generally get the most votes with any h2h specific matchup on here. Its ironic, because I think, as great as he was historically, he's less suited to the modern game than other history all hws. HW champs have historically either been larger than their peers (and or) more powerful. Ali was less powerful but larger, now he'd be less powerful and smaller, a dynamic that has never produced a truly dominant HW champ.

    Anyway, I'd like to see what percentage of people on here think Ali would lose to ANY hw in history, more often than not. It doesn't need to be a modern SHW, although I think that's the most obvious type of fighter to choose over Ali. Personally, I'd only give Louis and Marciano any real a chance among earlier fighters. Last general poll I saw was Ali Lewis, with Ali (of course) winning about 60/40. Just want to see if 60/40 is the baseline, or if some people just don't like Lewis, and are more realistic in general.
     
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    #1
  2. ellerbe

    ellerbe Loyal Member Full Member

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    Louis and Marciano would be cruisers in this era. They both weighed under 200 in their prime.
     
    ellerbe, Mar 29, 2017
    ellerbe, Mar 29, 2017
    #2
  3. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Then vote! Looks like you didn't.
    Edit: I guess I'm assuming that you would also recognize that Ali would likely be a cruiser as well.
     
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    #3
  4. ellerbe

    ellerbe Loyal Member Full Member

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    Nope. Louis might have been a HW but definitely not Marciano. What was the highest he weighed at? Was it even above 190? Ali weighed up to nearly 240 even though he was obviously fat and a shell of his former self.
     
    ellerbe, Mar 29, 2017
    ellerbe, Mar 29, 2017
    #4
  5. Gil Gonzalez

    Gil Gonzalez Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    The only guys I see prime Ali potentionally losing to more than once: Norton, Tyson and Foreman.
     
    Gil Gonzalez, Mar 29, 2017
    Gil Gonzalez, Mar 29, 2017
    #5
  6. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Jeez, I hate the double standard. Ali is no more a hw than Louis or Marciano. All are likely too small for the modern division. Louis and Rocky were smaller (slightly, in Louis's case), but both had the power that Ali lacked, and which is vital for any chance of success against the shws. Ali's peak size was about 1 inch and ten pounds heavier than Louis, and MUCH lighter hitting.
     
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    #6
  7. JoffJoff

    JoffJoff Regular Junkie Full Member

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    Is the question - Do you favour Ali versus every heavyweight in history or not? - If so, I will vote no.

    EDIT/ I mean vote YES because of the way you worded it, no to my version of the same question.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
    JoffJoff, Mar 29, 2017
    JoffJoff, Mar 29, 2017
    #7
  8. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Yes, that is the question.
     
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    #8
  9. ellerbe

    ellerbe Loyal Member Full Member

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    Double standard? What are you going on about. Let's bring up facts and numbers. How tall was Marciano, how much did he weigh, and what was his reach? Now tell me Ali's numbers then come back to me. Ali weighed around 215 in his prime. Marciano weighed 185.

    "I guess I'm assuming that you would also recognize that Ali would likely be a cruiser as well."

    This is the dumbest thing I've seen on the forum in a while. Ali weighed ABOVE the cruiser limit, Marciano weighed far below the cruiser limit.
     
    ellerbe, Mar 29, 2017
    ellerbe, Mar 29, 2017
    #9
  10. Lady Girl

    Lady Girl Kneel Before Zod! Full Member

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    no doubt tyson

    even ali admitted it
     
    Lady Girl, Mar 29, 2017
    Lady Girl, Mar 29, 2017
    #10
  11. pincai

    pincai The Indonesian Thin Man Full Member

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    I don't favour modern or old, big or small. There is a limit of human capacity, the lung and heart of a smaller guy is most probably stronger than the big guy. After a certain weight or size, being big can be a disadvantage, such as stamina and agility.
    Ali had great skills, I would favour him to best most heavyweights. Guys like Lennox and Klitschkos have a chance not solely because they are big, but because they have great skills, and they are arguably top 10 or 15 all time.
    I would never favour guys like Price, Jennings, valuev, Parker, wilder over Ali. Hope that answer your question.
     
    pincai, Mar 29, 2017
    pincai, Mar 29, 2017
    #11
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  12. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    About 5 inches and 30 pounds less than Ali, but with high level power. Meanwhile, Ali would be giving up 6 inches and 40 pounds to Fury, who has at least equal power. Do I really need to explain this further? I know Ali is a fan favorite, he deserves to be recognized as one of the two greatest hw's historically. But it's absolutely silly to say he has a chance h2h against modern shw's and Louis and Marciano don't.
     
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    #12
  13. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Fair enough. I'm a modernist, but even I don't think China chinned Price could beat Ali!
     
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    andrewa1, Mar 29, 2017
    #13
    KiwiMan, Contro and pincai like this.
  14. JoffJoff

    JoffJoff Regular Junkie Full Member

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    So you don't favour him against all HWs so voted 'Yes'?
     
    JoffJoff, Mar 29, 2017
    JoffJoff, Mar 29, 2017
    #14
  15. pincai

    pincai The Indonesian Thin Man Full Member

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    I voted no, hopefully I read the question correctly. I don't favour Ali over Lennox or Klitschko. I do think he can win, but the size disparity is great.
     
    pincai, Mar 29, 2017
    pincai, Mar 29, 2017
    #15
    KiwiMan and andrewa1 like this.
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