Ali-Holmes outcome without thyolar

Agreed. It would have been a good fight. A case can be made for either guy. I don't think Holmes had the strength or punching power to really get Tyson's respect, so he'd have to move, spin, and be on his toes all night long. Douglas, who many claim fought like Holmes and served to prove that a fighter like Holmes would beat Tyson, was stronger than Holmes and hit harder, and probably had a more varied arsenal (left hook, combination punching).

 

Only a peak Ali could have beaten Holmes.

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Gans-Biography-American-Champion/dp/0786439947/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

 

To say that Ali would have beaten Holmes without Thyloar is not serious, and to this forum's credit no one have made such a claim. He could possibly have lasted the distance, though.

Even in 1977 I think Ali's best bet against Holmes is benevolent judges. Holmes looked decidedly better than Ali against Shavers, and not too much time had lapsed between the two fights.

 

Agreed.

 

Larry Holmes in his prime was better than Buster Douglas ever was in Feb. of 1990........ Holmes hit harder than Douglas, and sure as hell had a better chin, too.........

The Tyson who fought Douglas in Tokyo was *****-whipped and totally disinterested in that fight / event......... Douglas looked great because he actually trained for once, while Tyson jacked off in the gym....... Tyson fought like he was in a trance in Japan.......

1990 was it for Tyson.... In truth, his skills never fully cameback to him........ KO's over "Tillman & Stewart" really proved nothing........

MR.BILL

 

Holmes was a better overall fighter than Douglas, but I don't think he hit harder. Holmes wouldn't have been able to stand in and trade with Tyson like Douglas did, something that got Tyson's respect. Holmes was very quick and mobile, but most of his combo's were of the 1-2 variety: jab, right hand, jab, right hand; Douglas was a better left hooker and threw bigger, stronger combinations (at least against Tyson on that night). Point being, I don't think Larry Holmes would have been able to get Tyson's respect enough to stand and bang like Douglas did.

 

At least. The 70's Ali is by and large massively over-rated. He was such a great talent that a depleted version of himself (with the help of an over-awed pubic and judges) was able to hold onto the title far too long. How he was able to get away with all the holding, clinching, grabbing ropes... et. al. I will never know. Truly one of the era's where heavyweight boxing more resembled professional wrestling.

 

Ali goes the distance but his reflexes are too zapped from inactivity, he loses a unaminous decision to Holmes.

 

Ali looked great in the 1980 photos' leading up to the October 2nd fight with Larry Holmes..... By late Sept., Ali was near or at 220 pounds and his hair was dyed jet black..... Ali seemed and sounded like he really had thrown the clock back to 1964, but it was all smoke and mirrors.........

Come the weigh-in on the day of the fight, Ali was in at 217 3/4 pounds and drained like a limp noodle that had been over-cooked in a pot of boiling hot water...... Ali was too light at age 38......

Once the fight got underway, it was obvious right off the bat that Ali was weak, slow & drained..... He had nothing to offer us / the fans.......... It was a terrible effort on the part of Ali........ Plus, it didn't help matters that Ali was facing a peaked Larry Holmes.....

Ali was so awful in his showing against Holmes, it wouldn't have mattered if he had fought Mike Weaver instead..... I feel Weaver would've walked right through Ali in 1980......

In late 1981, Ali was a bloated beach whale at 236 pounds for Trevor Berbick in the Bahamas.... Ali's speech was slurred and his legs were gone; as was his jab..... Hell, Ali's jab was more so a listless push against Berbick...... Somehow Ali went 10 so-so rds with Berbick.... A lousy fight and a horrid way to call it a career.......

MR.BILL