Ali Hypocrite

Does it ever occur to you that people, regardless of colour or creed, liked Ali because they actually AGREED with him.

And whats all this political bull**** about fighting for 'weak self-pitying liberals who hated america'? Your very melodramatic here mate. Ali fought primarily, and more than likely entirely, for himself and his family and for money, like every other boxer who ever lived. Nothing more nothing less.

 

jm36,

Absolutely correct,,,,,,,,,,Ali fought for himself.
Not the 2-faced *******s who jumped on the Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali band-wagon
and thought the guy was fighting for them and against the establishment.

 

I have mixed feelings about Ali. I think he did a lot to help his race stand up and have pride. He was probably the most audacious black man of the century up to that point, and I give him credit for that. As far as Viet Nam goes, I'm skeptical that he did it for anyone other than the Muslims and himself; still, it took some balls.

My main complaint about Ali is more related to him as a boxer. I think Ali carried a lot of unfair advantages into the ring....biased judges, negligent refs who let him get away with whatever he wanted, and if rumours are true, having an intimidating Muslim entourage in the mid-60's. I'd have liked to see some of his opponents get a fairer shake at beating him, and I would've liked Ali to have more respect for them instead of using them as scapegoats for his own frustrations.

He's a complicated guy. I've tried to love him, but can't really. Lots of people do though, so perhaps I'm not getting something. But I always rooted for Foreman, Frazier, and Norton every time.

 

Vince,,,,,,,,,,,,,excellente'

The truth, Ali and his group had to back-track, after their attempt to get out of
the Army back-fired on them.
First it was, the financial loss, then it was a minister, then it was his religion, then it became his stand against an unjust war.

Nothing more than a chess game, until the right move fit.

 

Anybody, whether they agree or not with his politics/religion/whatever, cannot doubt the mans talent in a ring. There are too many haters here who through their hatred of a guy they havent met, are letting their hatred stand in the way of the mans skill in the ring. Hand on my heart, and i cant think of any other way of putting this, any man who questions Ali's fighting ability shouldnt be on a boxing forum. Its ridiculous to suggest he was anything other than exceptional

 

It does matter, because only a white person would say something like "Most Ali fans are sympathetic whites." Which means since your not any other race, how would you know who does and doesn't respect or idolize him?


Yea if he was a nobody in the street preaching against the war, no **** I wouldn't get on my knees and praise him. I would walk by and say "Hey that wacko is right."

The fact is, he used his fame to propel his views to a very large scale. He had everything to lose, unlike your guy on the street corner. Is this all to complex for your understanding?


Your the type of guy who hears an interview with Ali's classmate in 8th grade who got teased by Ali, and say "He's a scumbag!"


Like you said, he is a human being. And when a man's positive deeds outweight his negative ones exponentially, but you still feel like he is a bad person, the YOU need to look into the mirror, into your life, and ask yourself why you feel that way. Because clearly youre the one with the problem, not him, who has provided more meals for the needy than all of us classic posters will eat in our entire lives combined.


You said most Ali fans are sympathetic Whites. Well let me do you one better, and say most of Ali haters are conservative grumpy whites.


And PLEEEASSE dont say your not an Ali hater.

Were talking about him as a person now

 

Ali fought for himself? Why does he give money away without care? Why did he dedicate his entire lives to help people? For himself?

Well Ali didn't have it very easy on him at first either. Throughout the 60's he was not very liked, and if anything the bias was against him. Remember he also got blinded in the Liston fight. So he had to endure his fair share of unjust treatment in the ring.

And your right, he had an intimidating group of black muslims with him during the 60's. But that who got rid of the mafia from boxing. The mob would still be heavily tied to the boxing game today, like it was in the 50's and Jake Lamotta days, if it weren't for Ali and the nation of Islam. Ali was supposed to take a dive against Liston. The mafia had threatened him to do so. Ali came back with the nation of islam, making threats of their own, telling them if anything happened to Ali, the mafia would be targeted. Since then the mafia has not had their hand in boxing on a major scale.


Vince Voltage, I respectfully ask you, if you don't mind answering. Are you from America? Because I see a common trend in non-Americans in the Western world who don't quite understand Ali's impact on the world. But unless your an American, who were taught about race relations in America in every single grade of their school years, it would be much harder to understand. His impact was very cultural at the times, dealing with the Civil Rights movement, and freedom. 50 years before he was born, they would lynch black people for acting half as brave as he.

 

This will be the last thing I address before I ago.


Ali never wanted to sue the government. Herbert Muhammad Ali was in the works for suing the government. The guy was always greedy. Ends up he went kinda crazy. Anyways, he tried suing the government, and like you said, it didn't go through. Years later, in the mid 90's, Herbert tried it again. This time he got both leaders of the two sides of congress to agree to award Muhammad Ali around 80 Million dollars. They put it together with the Polish Aid bill, and it was ready to go. Right when it was about to go through, Ali heard about it, and had himself removed from the bill.

So the only time Ali ever had any knowledge of suing the government, was when he terminated the bill. This is something I know first hand.


So next time you try to throw dirt on one of our beloved legends name, please do more research. Ok? thxbye

 

Is it an American thing to be so hung-up on Ali as a "darling of white liberals"? No Europeans on this forum seem to have that particular angst about him.

For you Americans like or, especially, dislike of Ali seems to have a very political dimension. In that way you actually give him the political importance you claim he's undeserving of.

 

As usual,Bokaj,you have hit the nail right on the head ! It does indeed highlight Ali as a political symbol,deservedly or not.

 

Mr. Rez,,,,,,

I'm not an Ali hater. I don't hate anybody.
I just wasn't crazy about the methods or tactics that he used.
He woud demean people,,,,,,,,,,,,,many times uncalled for.

And you judge me as an Ali-hater', because of my opinion.

I never called anybody 'a Gorilla'

 

Ali would have refused to go, just as his "prophet" Elijah Muhammad did.

Anyway, I don't support war or say Ali was wrong on that issue, I just think he's been misrepresented as some sort of radical political activist or black power freedom fighter, some even call him a "civil rights" man, a hero outside the ring, and a martyr for a wider cause.
On closer examination he wasn't any of those things.

 

Ali was a very complex individual. In some cases he displayed stupidity, malice and cowardice in others he displayed compassion and bravery.

For me there especially two things that stick out where he acted with great moral cowardice:

1. Turning his back on Malcolm X and then still sticking to Eljiah Muhammed even after it was quite clear that he was responsible for Malcolm's assisination.

2. Spewing hatefilled and vile Black Muslim propaganda about how mixed couples should be executed. He said these things still in the mid-70's, when a grown man.


His stance on the draft, on the other hand, I feel generally was just. There is some plain wisdom in the "No Viet Cong ever called me ******"-statement. There were probably numerous reasons that he didn't want to go, but that he didn't want to fight what he saw as an unjust war for a state he viewed as oppressive against blacks do carry merit. And he didn't flee to Canada or Sweden, he stayed and took his chances in court. I can't see much wrong here.

 

I agree it took some balls.
And I think Ali refused the draft simply for his own selfish reasons, and maybe because the NOI were separatists. He wasn't making a statement about the particular policy in Vietnam, that came later when he realised there was an anti-war movement.

I think EVERY black heavyweight champion up to that point had done something to make blacks stand up and feel proud. They didn't all have the motor-powered mouth and the good looks and childish charm of Ali though.

I agree. Then again, many of the great fighters have used similar advantages.
Some of Ali's slurs against opponents were disgraceful, unforgivable really. It's a shame, because much of his talk was very entertaining and very funny banter, he was a one-off, a very gifted and charming talker, a funny guy. But that's tainted by the nasty stuff.