Ali Liston 2

Ali's similar "big for their day" opponents, ended up with similar defeats. Liston twice, Foreman, Williams, Folley, etc. At 6'3, 215 lbs, and long reach, Ali with his great hand speed, could generate some power against those "come forward" type opponents. (Frazier was a different breed of cat with his low stance, bob & weave defense, and the threat of Frazier's constant powerful left hook).

 

When the "fight" happened up in Maine in May 1965...everyone at ringside....reporters...fans...etc...thought that the fight was "fixed"...that the "punch" that Ali learned from "Stepin Fetchit"....the "Anchor" punch...was bogus...that the "punch" couldn't have squashed a grape!!! This notion that the "punch" was legit...is a new way of thinking!! No one at the time believed this...something fishy had happened!!

 

Plenty at the time believed it, and plenty didn't.

 

Ali landed the punch but imo Liston wasn't hurt, he searched for an opportunity to lay down because the fight was fixed, his acting was poor, it looked like an old slapstick comedy movie.

I also believe that the first fight could have been fixed.

 

I've always believed the fixed story. Charles Farrell, ex boxing manager said he had it on record from Liston's manager (Ahhh his name escapes me) that it was indeed fixed, and I doubt he has any reason to lie. Charles always comes across as a very honest, and astute man.

 

The Florida promoter for Fight #1 predicted "Clay" would win in 8 rounds. He was also
a promoter of professional wrestling.

More info:
FBI suspected 1964 Muhammad Ali-Sonny Liston fight was a Mob fix

foxsports

Feb 28, 2014 at 4:00p ET

Tuesday marked 50 years since Cassius Clay, later known as Muhammad Ali, "shocked the world" and beat Sonny Liston — one of the greatest fighters to ever step in the boxing ring. The fight catapulted the young Clay to the top of the boxing world, but the Federal Bureau of Investigation thought the win might have involved something more seedy beyond the box score.

Clay and Liston sparred six rounds at the Miami Convention Center, and Liston’s decision to quit before the seventh raised red flags for the FBI, which at the time suspected the fight had been fixed by a Las Vegas gambler, according to the Washington Times.

Through a Freedom of Information Act request, the Times obtained memos (some addressed directly to the FBI’s then-director, J. Edgar Hoover) showing the bureau’s investigation into Ash Resnick and Barnett Magids — two gamblers who seemed to have insider knowledge before the upset.

Resnick, who had connections to Liston and organized crime, first advised Magids that Liston would knock out Clay in the second round. Then on the day of the fight, documents show Resnick told Magids not to make any bets on the fight but to "just go watch the fight on pay TV and he would know why and that he could not talk further at that time."

"Magids did go see the fight on TV and immediately realized that Resnick knew that Liston was going to lose," a document stated. "A week later, there was an article in Sports Illustrated writing up Resnick as a big loser because of his backing of Liston. Later people ‘in the know’ in Las Vegas told Magids that Resnick and Liston both reportedly made over $1 million betting against Liston on the fight and that the magazine article was a cover for this."

It’s not confirmed that Liston took a dive, but it was enough for the FBI to continue to assert the suspicion internally that Resnick had fixed the fight.
https://www.foxsports.com/boxing/st...d-ali-sonny-liston-fight-was-a-mob-fix-022814

 

You can't change folks First recation.
They all knew.... including Ali.

 

SI Vault: A quick, hard right and a needless storm of protests
This story first appeared in SPORTS ILLUSTRATED's June 7, 1965 issue.

Download the Link re: Phantom Punch and read at your leisure:
https://www.si.com/boxing/2015/05/22/si-vault-muhammad-ali-sonny-liston-phantom-punch

Other interesting SI Vault Clay/Ali vs Liston 1 articles
https://www.si.com/vault/1964/02/24/608244/cassius-clay-first-person-sonny-liston
https://www.si.com/vault/1964/11/16/606303/sony-liston-profile-muhammad-ali-first-fight

 

On the money.

 

I agree the second fight was fixed. I've come to that assessment after much thought and scrutiny.

Noway was the first fixed tho. In round 5 when it became apparent Clay was having trouble seeing Liston threw numerous absolute BOMBS at him and some landed too. Any one could have been a potential concluder particularly given nobody knew Clay could take a great punch at that point.

 

Agreed. On both fights.

The one thing seldom mentioned is what a terrific job Clay did in that 6th round in that first fight. Beautiful. He just took Sonny apart. I sure don't think Liston wanted to go out for another round of that kind of licking and total ineffectiveness. That really was an alltime great round of boxing & changing of the guard; out with the old and in with the new.

Just how many other guys are going to do that kind of thing to Liston, let alone in the grand total of 3 minutes?

 

I go back and forth with the first fight but you're probably right, Ali was getting the better of him in the 6th round
and would probably have continued to pick him apart.

Liston was competitive for the first 5 rounds though, i think he wasn't prepared for the full distance and he clearly underestimated Ali, he thought he would do a Patterson on him.

But i take nothing away from Ali, i think it was one of the best performances i have ever seen, i don't think many fighters would have beaten even that version of Liston.

 

Agree on all counts.