Ali Liston 2

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by surfinghb, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The training of Sonny Liston .. Good article here from the SI vault .. @richdanahuff you might know this area where Liston trained

    This content is protected
     
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  2. Pugguy

    Pugguy Member Full Member

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    Awesome. Can’t wait to read this. Thanks.
     
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  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Nice post .. thanks !
     
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  4. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I dont know what to think anymore as you and I have debated/argued a lot, and this topic being one of them ,, after looking more into it and stumbling across this article it does seem that Liston was taking this fight serious with his training and was ready for the fight physically, well as much as possible being 35 and the so called other problems in his life .. but mentally who knows?? I want to give Ali credit for landing a perfect punch and a legit KO ... but now I'm leaning towards your view on it ... And overall, over the years, I think you have presented a better case than I have
     
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  5. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well i'm Ali's biggest fan would love to give him credit for the "phantom punch" but plain and simply Sonny lay down.
    Why or for what reason I wouldn't know, but that punch simply couldn't KO Sonny Liston.
     
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I personally think they should have gone by Walcott’s decision to let the fight go on. Instead of listening to the ringside (what do you call him official?). Liston looked ready to go after the knockdown.
     
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  7. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I know the area never been up to the shrine but I think I will its about 1 1/2 hrs from here....its funny and makes sense that you really dont read of Liston being out of shape or fatigued during fights...if he walked and ran in the Rockies it makes perfect sense

    If I were an investor I would go up the cripple creek and open a training camp for fighters MMA/Boxing Denver is 5280+- ft and Colorado Springs where I live is over 6000 but Cripple Creek is over 9000 ft...imagine the condition fighters coming from that altitude would be when fighting at lower altitudes like Vegas
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  8. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Of course this article was published in anticipation of the scheduled Boston fight in November 1964. Man, I wish that fight would have happened. Looks like Liston was ready to go.
     
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  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Listen, I've always respected you as a poster and as a very knowledgeable guy .. too many times over the years I've joined the bard and gotten a bit hot here.Not proud of it and I've tried to be much more laid back in my old age. With very few exceptions I truly have a terrible memory about who I joust with .. to me it's all escapist fun .. that said , terrific article.
     
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  10. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Must be awesome up there .... hope you get to check out the mountain someday
     
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  11. Pugguy

    Pugguy Member Full Member

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    Thanks again.

    Great article. Liston was an enigma, clearly distrusting of many. I note the article was dated 2 Nov 1964. Just 14 days prior to the orig. scheduled Boston date. Of course just 3 days prior (Fri 13th!) Ali was taken to hospital for the emergency hernia op.

    Just 2 wks before the fight, Liston at 214 lbs was def. coming into land at the desired 210-212 lbs, a very good weight for Sonny.

    I can only reason enough for a flash KD in Maine. Thereafter it was a circus. Ali was perhaps as much to blame for the confusion as anyone else.

    Though Liston did arise, it was after 20 + secs so he had to get back up at some point even if he was trying to stay down and take a count which of course wasn’t executed.

    As such, I don’t think that Liston was necessarily wishing to continue but def. it would’ve been interesting if Walcott had simply allowed it to continue.

    Apparently the postponement devastated Liston. No wonder. He did take Ali lightly first time around but going into Miami, he also had only boxed a very limited numbers rds over the prior 2 years.

    The rematch was ultimately delayed to the point of being another 15 months since Miami, with Liston already having peaked in conditioning mid way and not getting any younger…..with barely 9 rounds of actual competitive engagement in the preceding 4+ years….certainly not ideal.
     
  12. Rakesh

    Rakesh Active Member Full Member

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    I think Ali was ready to go with Liston the distance, he was significantly lighter then the first fight, he knew Liston wasn't shot at all.
     
  13. Pugguy

    Pugguy Member Full Member

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    Good point. At 206 lb it does appear that Ali was looking to accent on mobility, even more so than the first fight and perhaps in view of a longer bout. Though, even at the lighter weight, Ali looked very built, stronger than Miami and he didn’t waste any time landing some solid punches even before the KD.

    It’s difficult to locate training footage of Liston prior to the postponement . Or, at the very least, confirm that it is Liston training for Boston. This clip definitely fits the bill, go to the 44 min. mark. Liston does look in tremendous shape. He ultimately weighed 215 1/4 lb for the rematch in Maine, but he was orig. planning and on target for 210 lb to 212 lb for the Boston fight and I think his shape in the clip bares this out.

    It really was unfortunate the rematch didn’t take place as orig. scheduled. As per the SI article, Liston was very serious and intense for the fight.

     
  14. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    With you there Cecil, it's not putting Liston down.
     
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