Ali/Marciano who wins the real fight.

even though I like Marciano by late stoppage, this fight would bring both men to a different level ALi/Frazier 1 Ali/Frazier II but with Marciano the strong finish would belong to him and RSF Marciano BY 15th

 

frazier didn't beat a peak ali. peak conditioned ali beats frazier (well it would be very close like Manila). rocky would be in some mess if it lasted to the 15th. i suspect super courageous rocky would last the distance so UD win for Ali.

 

The list of the top 5 heavyweights is:

1. Marciano, and in the next four positions, in no particular order: Dempsey, Louis, Tunney, Ali. This is also the reason Marciano beats Ali:

It isn't apparent at first, but when you start comparing Marciano's fights to any of the 70's boxers, you start to see what made Marciano almost unbeatable. He had virtually endless stamina, in fact he had the best stamina in boxing history. He punched for 15 rounds and never got tired. He would never give his opponent a second to catch his breath. Could you imagine if Ali had fought Marciano instead of Frazier? There would be no "cruising" through a round to recover energy. Ali would have been KO'd if he slowed down even for one second against Marciano. Watch the first Ezzard Charles-Rocky Marciano fight. No cruising allowed. Plus he was small enough to hit anyone on the chin. His bigger opponents were all brutalized. I would give George Foreman little chance against him. To beat Marciano, it would take a fast, smaller man like Gene Tunney, to outbox him and win a decision. But it would have to be Tunney on his best day ever. Marciano had better stamina than Dempsey. You would have to hit Rocky frequently to win points, but each time you hit, he would have a good chance to hit you with his stronger punches. Two guys tried to stick-and-move Marciano: Roland LaStarza and Harry Kid Matthews. They were both KO'd. LaStarza lost by SD the first time, but even there he was floored for 7. Marciano had lost a round for a low blow, or it would have been unanimous.

Every strategy has been tried against Marciano. Joe Walcott tried to give him everything he had in round one, in an attempt to knock him out early. Marciano was floored for 2 seconds and got up as if nothing had happened, and proceeded with his usual slow-but-steady demolition.

I think Tunney, LaStarza and Ali would have been capable of beating Marciano on points in maybe one out of five fights. But no more than that. Watch the LaStarza and Matthews fights on youtube and you'll see why I'm so pessimistic.

 

And because of his dedication:


From Joyce Carol Oates' essay/book "On Boxing" :

"..... Marciano was willing to seclude himself from the world, including his wife and family, for as long as three months before a fight. Apart from the grueling physical ordeal of this period and the obssessive preoccupation with diet and weight and muscle tone, Marciano concentrated on one thing : the upcoming fight. Every minute of his life was defined in terms of the opening second of the fight. In his training camp the opponent's name was never mentioned in Marciano's hearing, nor was boxing as a subject discussed. In the final month Marciano would not write a letter since a letter related to the outside world. During the last ten days before a fight he would see no mail, make no telephone calls, meet no new acquaintances. During the week before the fight he would not shake hands. Or go for a ride in a car, however brief. No new foods ! No dreaming of the morning after the fight ! For all that was not the fight had to be excluded from consciousness. When Marciano worked out with a punching bag he saw his opponent before him, when he jogged he saw his opponent close beside him, no doubt when he slept he "saw" his opponent constantly - as the cloistered monk or nun chooses by an act of fanatical will to "see" only God.
Madness ? - or merely discipline ? - this absolute subordination of the self. In any case, for Marciano, it worked."

 

Then I would like to know which rounds against Frazier that Ali cruised through.

 

Ali UD.

 

But not even a great like Walcott is Ali...

 

There are several where he layed on the ropes, trying to get a second wind, but absorbing a beating in the process. I'd have to re-watch the fight to see exactly which, but off the top of my head: the 7th, 9th and 11th (where he nearly knocked down Ali).

 

Ali UD. 10-5 or so.

 

Ali was a man who's chin and body survived the attacks of George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Sonny Liston and Earnie Shavers. Additionally, he managed to outwork and outpoint a swarmer with both a greater workrate and more handspeed than Rocky had. Marciano was actually trailing on the scorecards against a 37 year old Walcott in the 13th round of a grueling battle before the older fighter slowed down enough for Rock to launch a missile. Charles gave him as much or more trouble in their first meeting.

Good matchup on paper, but Marciano's out of his league here.

 

Yeah, but that's not cruising. That's trying to cruise, but getting the **** beat out of you because of it. He certainly didn't conserve energy in those rounds, which was the plan.

 

Round 11 in FOTC off the top of my head.

 

:huh

I'm not even an Ali fan, but come on, his chin and recuperative abilities were second to none.

He was NEVER stopped. That's ridiculous considering how long he fought and the murderers that he faced late in his career when he was much faded.

I'll go with Ali by a UD 10-5. Marciano has his moments but Ali would be able to weather Rockys storms and his huge speed/size edge would be the difference.

 

If that was an answer to me, I'd like to know how he got away with cruising in that round. Frazier nearly took his head off and came closer to KO'ing Ali than anyone before or after.

The Rock was great and this certainly would be a tough fight, but this supreman status that is awarded him... The pressure he put on Walcott was NOT as great as the one Frazier put on Ali in FOTC, not even as great as the one he put on Ali in the two subsequent fight. I've never seen any HW (hardly any fighter at all, actually) put on the pressure Frazier put on Ali. He didn't let up for a second during 41 tough, fast paced rounds.

Personally, I'd be surprised to see Walcott last more than 10 with FOTC Frazier.

 

:good

Frazier was close to impossible for pure boxers to beat. 67 Ali is the only one that is even money with him, imo. He would KO Walcott and Charles within 10, and that's not an insult to either of them. Frazier and Marciano had different styles and their money punches were very different as well.