Ali/Marciano who wins the real fight.

How does Rocky reach Ali consistently enough to hurt him? He's way too short. His reach is way too short. He's much slower of hand and foot and is susceptible to cuts. A prime Ali would dance circles around Rocky all the while keeping him at bay with his incredible hand speed and his 11" reach advantage. All of Rocky's oppnents were there to be hit. Ali wouldn't be. The Ali of the late 60's could dance every minute of a 15 round fight. Rocky never faced that type of opponent period. Styles make fights and Ali, that is a prime Ali would be nightmare for Rocky. Now Rocky vs. Joe Frazier or Jack Dempsey would be another story entirely.

 

Ali by lopsided decision or stopage on cuts .. love Rocky nbut he is the most overated fighter in heavyweight history

 

Ali said he thought Rocky was greater than Frazier. That should count for something.

 

I especially like the part where you imply that LaStarza's in the same league as Tunney and Ali just because he gave Rocky trouble twice. If LaStarza could do that to Rocky, what would infinitely better boxers like Tunney and Ali do? I'd actually pick Tunney to beat Rocky 3-5 times and Ali 5-5.

 

That's not what he said after Manilla. I don't see why it should count for anything anyway.

 

I'm not so sure that Ali would be a nightmare for Rocky.

Marciano's reach is much shorter than Ali's granted, but he had an inferior reach to probably everyone he fought. Also, Frazier had a much shorter reach than Ali too, and that did not stop him from landing that famed left hook countless times in their first fight.

Now, one could rightly point out that the Ali that fought Frazier wasn't quite the same guy from the 60's and that's fair enough, but I think you could match Frazier and Ali up in the 60's and get the same result, or at the least still a very competitive fight.

Contrary to what you say, not even Ali could dance every minute of every round, and certainly not so if Marciano put lots of pressure on him.

Why were the Ali - Frazier fights so competitive, despite Frazier (on paper) not matching up well with Ali physically? If we look at the obvious physical aspects of each fighter such as height, reach, handspeed, footspeed, reflexes etc. Ali blows Joe away in all these areas. Frazier had advantages in one or two categories, but not many. The intangibles were a different story though.

The fights were competitive because Joe matched Ali in will and endurance. He could match Ali step for step and keep going ad infinitum.
Basically, those fights were based more on will than skill.

And I believe Marciano would make this a 'will' rather than 'skill' fight.
He would not be intimidated or outpsyched by Ali in the slightest, he has the durability to soak up whatever Ali throws at him, and most importantly, he, like the famed science fiction character the Terminator, "absolutely will not stop" throwing leather until he is either put out of commision or emerges victorious.
The recent Cotto - Margarito fight refers as a classic example of will overcoming skill.
I'm not suggesting a similar outcome here at all, but I don't believe anyone outside of Joe Frazier that Ali faced put Ali under the kind of pressure that Marciano would subject him to.
And Mariciano could do that for 15 rounds all day, every day.

So for me it's a very competitve fight, despite perhaps not looking that way on paper.
I still go for Ali, but he'd know he was in a fight afterward.

 

So, take Frazier, make him smaller in every way, give him a much better right hand, make him slower of hand and foot, make his defense worse by a bit and turn his skin into paper. Basically what I'm getting at is that Frazier v. 100% prime Ali is a toss up, and Frazier is better than Marciano in most ways as far as I can see.

 

It's on a film that's posted on another thread here. He evaluated champions of the past and said Rocky was greater/better than Frazier, even though he thought him very crude.

I know that fighters tend to change their minds according to the situation on such things (Foreman being the case in point), but that doesn't mean that I discard it all together. His praise of Frazier as the greatest next to him came after they had taken each other to the brink. His assesment of Marciano was made under more cold minded conditions.

 

That's my take on it as well. Good post.

People need to stop this "he would outclass him, he would beat him to a pulp etc" when it comes to such great fighters as Ali and Marciano. Marciano had several aspects to him that would trouble Ali. His crouch, his awkward but surprisingly effective defence, his relentless pressure, his infighting, his rough-house tactics etc.

Ali himself noted this, and I think he was being sincere. To believe this would be an easy pay-day for Ali is nonsense.

And this about Marciano stopping Ali... Sure, it's not impossible, but there few fighters in the history of boxing that were harder to stop, and Marciano never fought anyone who even came close to Ali in this department. So, it's definitely a reach to say that Marciano would stop him. Fighters with better KO records didn't manage it against far worse versions of Ali than the one we envision here.

 

Peak Ali by decision or on cuts.