Ali may not be the greatest but he has the greatest signature win

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Aug 1, 2019.


  1. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

    10,605
    18,199
    Jan 6, 2017
    I challenge anyone to find me a better signature win than Ali vs Foreman. Here you had a guy who lost 3 years of his prime and was struggling to get back into things. He lost some of his precious speed, stamina, and reflexes. He loses to Frazier and Norton and his future is uncertain, then what happens? The same guys he loses to are demolished by Foreman in 2 rounds.

    At 32 he is written off and no longer floating like a butterfly or stinging like a bee. His own corner was described as "looking like they were about to attend a funeral" (when we were kings) and Ali had to uplift their spirits. Foreman was the overwhelming favorite and his team even prayed they wouldn't kill Ali (although Foreman later said he actually wanted to).

    Prior to the upset, Patterson had been the only 2x heavyweight champion. Ali won by KO against a 25 year old undefeated undisputed champion, a former gold medalist who had a 92% KO ratio. For those who disagree, SHOW ME a signature win with better numbers than those. I do not want to hear about quantity over quality/rematches, im talking about individual signature/legacy fights.
     
  2. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

    4,900
    7,574
    Jul 18, 2018
    Louis KO1 Schmeling. That fight had WW2 politics attached to it and boosted the confidence and pride of an entire nation against the Nazis. Joe Louis was a hero afterwards
     
  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

    19,091
    20,585
    Jul 30, 2014
    I'm not sure which of the three is better. This, FOTC, or Ali vs Liston. You could make a serious case for all 3. However if pressed I'd go for the latter.
     
  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,903
    Mar 3, 2019
    I think Ali is universally number 1 or at least 2. But anyway at HW I'd take Schmeling Louis.

    Pfp? It's probably not top 5.
     
    Webbiano likes this.
  5. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    60,796
    81,105
    Aug 21, 2012
    I was just going to say Schmeling KO12 Louis.

    Louis, the rising star, wrecking everything before him, and Schmeling, the has-been, beaten already by Baer, a man that Louis smashed to a pulp. But, Schmeling thinks he sees something ... ;)

    https://www.thefightcity.com/joe-louis-max-schmeling-boxing-upsets/
     
    Rock0052, Webbiano and Ra's Al-Ghul like this.
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,593
    27,264
    Feb 15, 2006
    Perhaps the man with the greatest ever signature win was in the ring that day, but it was not Ali!

    Frazier Foreman I was an absolute domination of a top ten all time heavyweight.

    I don't think that anybody else has done that before or since!
     
    Webbiano and George Crowcroft like this.
  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,903
    Mar 3, 2019
    Oliver McCall did it against Lewis. Sanders did it against Wlad
     
    BCS8 likes this.
  8. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    60,796
    81,105
    Aug 21, 2012
    Barrera vs Hamed was so satisfying :D
     
  9. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    60,796
    81,105
    Aug 21, 2012
    Good thread. You have me going over the classics now :)
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,593
    27,264
    Feb 15, 2006
    Not quite the same thing really.

    Lewis McCall was not exactly a domination, and Lewis was not the champion yet anyway.

    Wlad Sanders might fit the bill, but it was well before he became the top man in the division.
     
  11. reckless

    reckless Active Member Full Member

    1,141
    1,240
    Mar 18, 2018
    Holyfield Tyson was also a great upset at the time. Tyson was knocking people out in 3 rounds in devastating fashion (his loss to Douglas was seen as a freak loss) whereas Holyfield had lost to Bowe and Moorer in the last 2 years and was seen as a has been. No one gave him a chance.

    It is the win that made Holyfield a world wide star.

    Ali and Louis were already very famous before the Foreman and Schmeling fights.
     
    Fergy and George Crowcroft like this.
  12. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,547
    9,575
    May 30, 2019
    I still think that Max Schmeling win against Louis is the greatest win at least at HW. Unbelievable performance that wasn't repeated again by anyone (Charles beat past prime Louis).
     
    ETM and BCS8 like this.
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,593
    27,264
    Feb 15, 2006
    I will throw a random out there.

    What about Young Corbett's win over Terry McGovern?

    That was like Holyfield Tyson I, if Tyson had never lost to Douglas, or gone to prison!
     
  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

    10,605
    18,199
    Jan 6, 2017
    Schmeling beating Louis was a marvelous win top 50 even but Louis wasnt the champion, he was a young contender. Still impressive but not as impressive as beating an undefeated champion.

    Louis beating him in the rematch was also impressive but again, Schmeling was NOT the champion, was past his prime, and already had some losses on his record.

    Yes i give Holyfield tons of credit but i cannot stress enough that beating a post prison version of Tyson who had been beaten before is not as impressive as beating an undefeated boogeyman champion who easily beat 2 of your greatest rivals.

    I give Barrera TONS of credit for beating Hamed. An undefeated super star who sold tons of tickets and dazzled crowds with his speed and power. The only problem in comparing it to Ali vs foreman is that hamed wasnt the undisputed champ of the division, it was for a vacant paper belt.

    Lamotta vs Robinson is debatable, to be honest. We're talking about a guy considered #1 across all time and tjis blue collar slugger gets an upset through sheer will power. Had he knocked out robinson id have no problems placing this win above Ali's.

    Klitschko vs Peter??? Are you drunk?

    Mosley beat Forest by decision and it was only for 1 belt. Neither guy was the dominant reigning champ of the division.

    Margarito already had 5 losses when Mosley beat him.

    Yes ironically Foreman might have Ali beat in that regard. Ironically he wasnt favored to win and people wrote him off. It's revisionist history to look at the clash of styles and not give him credit.

    I still think Ali has the edge because even though Frazier was undefeated he wasn't the same stay busy gym rat when foreman fought him. He wasnt as sharp as he was in FOTC.
     
  15. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    10,222
    19,533
    Jul 25, 2015
    We talking P4P? Cause then you have to talk about wins like Greb vs Walker, Armstrong vs Ross, Duran over Leonard and Canzoneri over Mclarnin.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.