Ali may not be the greatest but he has the greatest signature win

You could also say that Foreman took Ali lightly in the rumble in the jungle, even given the magnitude of the occasion. Foreman even has said that he was more confident in that fight than any other, that he just couldn't see himself losing. I think Foreman with a different game plan has a decent chance of beating Ali. Frazier doesn't have any real chance no matter what v Foreman 1

 

You could also say Foreman had fought substantially less rounds than Ali had when Ali was going into FOTC and that Foreman’s destroyer status came from beating a champ that was ill prepared (not exactly true as he did demolish most of his opponents all be it mostly no hopers) that lost a lot from the FOTC.

But this is the big problem, It’s hard to draw a lines, but we have to draw them somewhere.

I find Ali supporters want to point out we was ring rusty going into the FOTC, but had amassed over twice as many rounds as Foreman had going into the RITJ in a 2 year period

 

1. Foreman had 9 rounds in 2 years going into the Norton bout. Between Frazier and Norton he had 1 round in a bit over a year. Despite this he'd never looked better.

I also look at the Ali fight and George was George but the difference was Ali was Ali. Foreman raced out nimble on his feet and was forcing Ali into corners with ease but Ali was also walking him onto slashing right hands and flurries. Ali was stifling the effectiveness of a lot of George's offensive and also tying him up and maneuvering him masterfully. George tho continues cutting him off and throwing bombs at the head and body and despite Ali's superb defensive and offensive work lands some devastating signature detonations to the body and late in the round a a huge right hand to the head and another monstrosity to the body. He also lands a big right hand early in round 2. Rope a dope then comes to the party with Ali countering brilliantly off the ropes and Foreman continuing to bomb. Ali takes another huge right hand late in round 3 among numerous bombs to the body that get thru.

These are the blows that decimated both Frazier and Norton among others. Ali rides them out with seemingly little trouble which is truly absurd really. Despite Ali pasting him with speedy beautifully timed right hands (he lands more on Foreman than Frazier and Norton combined could dream about) and unlike others holding his own in the strength stakes Foreman still lands enough artillery to bury almost anyone, or certainly start them on their way.

What i am saying is that despite Ali being far better equipped than Norton and Frazier stylistically George still finds a way home for those bombs. This is George at his devastating best. Even Ali's movement, slashing combinations, excellent reflexes and fine display of strength doesn't stop George from landing blows that should well have started Ali on his way. He just shakes them off. I can't see any other "boxer" in history getting thru those first few rounds. For me the only guys that have a chance here are ones that can blaze back and kill before being killed. Guys more like Liston, Louis and Lewis and even then it's a tough ask. Ali landed many solid right hands and Foreman walked thru them in the early rounds with very little trouble. When Ali is punching with intention like that he is actually quite a good puncher.

The other thing is that George showed as good a stamina as he ever did. He threw a lot of punches and most were hard.

In my opinion very very very few would have survived George that night. I would hate to put my life on anyone other than Ali truth be told.

Also with those crushing wins over Frazier and Norton Foreman doesn't need anything else. The rest is window dressing. It's a truly historic run per quality.

Having said that Peralta was a top 10 contender when Foreman beat him and Chuvalo was either top 10 or about to be as well.

Louis had built a fine record going into Schmeling in a short time. I don't overly rate Carnera and don't get much excited about Levinsky. Baer was a superb win. These wins don't however match up to Foreman's. Baer had just been beaten whilst Frazier was an ATG on an undefeated streak - Foreman destroyed him and could not have done it much more impressively really.

We can speculate on Frazier's preparation but the guy was toyed with. Foreman also beat him easily a bit later when both had lost some edge. By contrast Louis made mince meat of Max a couple of years later. Admittedly Max had got no younger but he hadn't lost since. Louis in this short couple of years had become the complete article and was peaking.

Foreman's ahead without a shadow of a doubt. Some believe he had the most dominant win in Heavyweight history even now.

What Foreman did after is irrelevant for me. IMO he was one of these guys that once he lost that cloak of invincibility he was never the same. It's well documented that the Ali loss destroyed him mentally. He changed his style, became less aggressive, doubted himself and suddenly retired.

You bring up good points tho and it's good to get some healthy debate going in here.

 

To me Foreman looked mostly very clumsy in ritj. I had Ali winning every round, from the first. Ali landed more shots and was way more accurate to the head. Foreman mostly only landed flush to the body. Ali didn't even look particularly tired at the end. That said, it was a sensational victory and I was so happy Ali won.

 

Flush body shots can win you rounds. Especially if it's Foreman delivering them.

 

He did get in some mammoth wallops.

 

Don't waste your time mate.

 

there were major calls for war against the nazis at the time. Louis rallied the nation, america's isolationism policy was the ONLY thing keeping us out

 

What? Louis rallied the nation for war against the Nazis? That’s hard to believe since he hardly seem to speak at all outside his pre and post fight interviews and then only about his boxing fights.

 

he rallied with the fight, he rallied with action

And of course his famous speech "We are on god's side", but that came after

 

Everyone was very aware of German aggression in Europe by fight time 1938. Hitlers army invaded Austria and the US was waiting for the next shoe to drop.

Although it was very true that the vast majority of those in the US did not want to get involved this all changed in 1941 when we were attacked by Japan. The US then declared war on Japan and Germany declared war on the US.

 

(in a small embarrassed voice) errrr, I'm an unashamed Larry Holmes fanboy...what's wrong with that?