Ali/Norton 3: Horrendous Robbery ?

Ali actually admitted he lost Norton III. At a press conference. Right after the fight.

You can pop in the Ali documentary Ali - The Whole Story and see that for yourself.

 

Really hard on Norton, that one. Wonder what would have happened if Norton had gotten the win he seems to have earned (I've never really watched the fight closely myself).

The only way to defeat Ali those days was probably through a KO or a complete shut-out. With that said, I don't believe either Shavers or Young beat him. I think that the Norton robbery has cast a shadow of suspiscion over every close fight Ali ever had.

 

One of the New York papers said this after the fight:"If Ali won that fight last night...then the Japanese won World War ll"...

 

They gave Ali the decision because he was Ali...

 

Yeah, sure. But one thing we should keep in mind is that Ali isn't the only one who got this preferential treatment. Louis edged one or two close fights just Ali, and had an outright gift decision as well. If Douglas hadn't KO'd Tyson that one might have ended in the most outrageous robbery ever. One judge actually had Tyson ahead when the fight ended! And don't forget Holyfield's gift against Lewis.

Ali was obviously not the only one who benefitted from his "iconic" staus.

 

Harry Carpenter was furious at this decision in his BBC commentary, calling it one of the worst he's ever seen. And Harry hung on Ali's bollocks for the most part too.

 

True, but i think Ali's score in the undeserved losses vs undeserved wins ranks as high as anybody. The fact that he never lost a close fight that could've gone either way seperates him. For instance, De la Hoya perhaps was lucky to win the Whitaker/Quartey/Mosley fights, but got shafted against Trinidad.

Ali could've easily lost the Frazier rematch, the Shavers fight, The Norton rematch and the Jones fight. Now i think he deserved to win those, but let's be honest, in boxing you can get robbed of much less clearer wins. If you then add in that he won fights he clearly lost - Norton III & Young - you get the picture. He was extremely fortunate when it came to the judges.

Then again, that was because of his own doing and popularity - in a sense you could say it's part of the greatness of Ali. And of course i don't remember Louis losing a close fight either, although he had fewer of them.

 

True. But he almost always won the last round in these close fights and that often made the difference. For me, that's the mark of a champion, to be able to pull together like that.

Ali-Frazier II wasn't close enough to raise any hesitation in my mind. But of course if Frazier had gotten the decision it wouldn't have been the strangest thing to ever have happened in a boxing ring...

The fight against Young was very close, but I think it's strange that people actually think Young won that one. You don't win the HW-title with such a negative perfomance, slick as it was. Even if the points margin against Shavers was a tad clearer IMO, I think a Shaver win would be more likely than a Young win. Shavers went for the win, Young tried to avoid a loss. That's how I see it.

 

Well i have to disagree there. Fights are scored on a round-by-round basis, not who makes the most memorable 12th round comeback, as emotionally exciting as that is.

As for Young, just because he's a defensive fighter doesn't mean he fights to avoid a loss. I think he outlanded Ali in most rounds and simply did the better work in a clear win. On the contrary, i thought the Shavers fight was closer.

 

Well, I suppose we just saw it differently. For me it was a very close fight, with the standing count that Young received probably being the difference between them.

The commentators (Cosell and Norton) also saw it as very close, as did "everyone at ringside" according to Cosell. And even if a draw wouldn't have been too unfair, I just can't see how you could win a very close title by sticking you upper-body through the ropes repeatedly.

 

See, that's the kind of emotional straw man reasoning that i don't buy. You reduce the entire fight to "you don't win the championship of the world by sticking your head through the ropes", "Ali won the last round and gave it all there". Yes, cool, but on a round by round basis, which is how fights are scored, he lost.

 

Sham of a fight.

 

If I agreed that Young clearly won by a round by round basis, then that would be that. But to win a really close title fight (where I personally lean slightly towards Ali) like that... Well, call it emotional, but it is well known that the challenger "have to go for it" to win, even if it's probably not written down anywhere, and everyone who climbs into the ring knows that.

 

Yeah, it was Ali's most boring fight. I did enjoy some of Young's moves (but obviously not all of them), though. A very slick fighter.

 

One more thing...If you have to really beat the champion big in order to take the belt away, why wasn't Norton declared the winner in his fight against Holmes? Larry won by one point! It seems the boxing higher ups truly didn't want Norton as thier champion as the general public wouldn't be interested in him. He wasn't given any leeway at all...at least not like Ali was given it seems.