Ali/Norton 3: Horrendous Robbery ?

It has always been bull**** hypocrisy, this stuff about the challenger having to overwhelm a champion to take his title by decision. Norton-Holmes has already been mentioned. What about Leonard-Hagler? Haugen-Pazienza? Haye-Valuev?

Let's face it: close decisions USUALLY go to the popular fighter. Not always, but usually. It doesn't matter if you're the champ or not, if you're liked by the people, you'll often get the nod. I hate this, and to me Ali was the ultimate benefiter of this tendency. You had to break his jaw, knock him down, pummel the **** out of him to win a decision....and even then, it might be split!!

 

I agree with the gist of your point, but I'd argue strongly that he had a case for each and every one of those "gifts". Judges are absolutely swayed by a fighters overall aura, but when you are ringside analyzing a live fight closely, its hard to manufacture a gift win from absolutely nothing- Decisions like that are much rarer than a close fight going the wrong way.

I don't think any of Ali's wins fall into the robbery category.

 

I get your point, too.
You know, this would be interesting: we have a lot of tech-saavy guys on this site. Is there anyone that can compile footage of Ali actually landing clean, crisp shots in this fight...compile every single punch, I mean. Honestly, I think it would be difficult to do, because there wouldn't be too much to work with. Flicking, glancing jabs are not impressive. But if someone could show me those cleans punches that I seem to be missing, that would be awesome. Most of Ali's blows seem like slaps, pokes, punches that are scoring only in the strictest definition of a scoring blow. Not that Norton was landing like Mike Tyson on Marvis Frazier either, but his punches seemed much more noticeable and clearly defined to me.
I would say it was not a horrendous robbery, but a robbery nonetheless.

 

Well, looking at the last round, I would say that Ali won it. Norton didn't land anything until the last half minute of the round, and they didn't do too much.

The announcer there was Dick Young, who disliked Ali.

Dick Young's longstanding dislike for Muhammad Ali came to an end when he reconciled with the fighter around 1986. According to Ziegler, "[He] realized that beneath his slick surface, Ali was a decent man, devoted to his family and possessed of courage and athletic skill."

 

Imagine '03 Toney at a trim 217lbs against the '00/'01 Peak Byrd who beat Vitali & Tua! :bbb

 

True. Jimmy would never have been an easy nut to crack. The Ali of the 1973 Norton rematch,though,would have decisively beaten a 1976 Young by a competitive but clear decision.

 

yeah it's a shame with Byrd that when he finally got his shot, he had to face back to back K brothers.

I'd say his peak ended with the holyfield fight, there was a decline in every fight from then I believe, although Byrd in round 12 of Mccline looked as good as ever IMO.

Yeah that toney V Peak Byrd would be something special. I love them chess matches.

My favourite match up is counter punchers v pressure fighters. guaranteed to have fireworks.

 

I've opined on several occasions that although I feel Muhammad only,genuinely,got one victory over Ken in their trilogy,I do feel that the third fight was NOT a robbery. Yes.....Ken deserved about nine rounds out of the fifteen,but a lot of the sessions were fairly close. A controversial decision ? Indeed. A robbery ? Bit of an overdramatisation.

The first Ramirez-Whitaker fight,to name but one,was a robbery.

 

There weren't enough rounds in this fight to justify Ali as the decision winner. Ali was handed this victory because boxing needed his name to keep the sport popular. It's almost safe to say Ken Norton wouldn't win this fight unless he took it out of the hands of the judges.

This was a horrible decision right up there with Whitaker vs Chavez, Delahoya vs Sturm and Lewis vs Holyfield I.

 

By 1977, nobody wanted to see Ali fight either Frazier or Norton for a 4th time..... '77 was suppose to be "Ali-Foreman 2," but Foreman choked against James Young down in Rico and left boxing for a decade.... So, in comes Ernesto Shavers as the next big name opponent for Ali... The win over Shavers was Ali's last true great effort in the ring.....

MR.BILL:thumbsup

 

No.

Round 1 - Ali. Not much happens. Norton has one good body shot. Rest of work by Ali (3-4 good lead rights to the head)
Round 2 - Even. Ali covering up for first minute or so of round. Norton has a couple decent overhand rights land, and good body work. Ali comes back into it and puts Norton into his shell with crisp onetwos. Seems to hurt Norton.
Round 3 - Ali. Norton lands best punch of round - hard right to the head, but Ali has the activity, and made Norton miss with a lot while doing the pitty patty stuff. Ali round for me
Round 4 - Norton. Solid combinations by Ali at start of round landed. Good defence again by Muhammad, blocking most of Norton's work. Good hard overhand right landed by Norton though. Solid punches by Norton towards end of round.
Round 5 - Norton. Clearest round to score so far for me. Ali covering up on ropes. Good work by Norton. Ali taking a rest, it seems.
Round 6 - Norton. Another clowning round by Ali, with Norton doing the work. Damages Ali with a good body shot near end.
Round 7 - Ali. Ali comes out much more lively. Keeping away from Norton's right. Ali lands a good couple of combinations. Makes Norton miss a lot. Good Ali round.
Round 8 - Even. Norton stalks Ali. Lands mostly on gloves/shoulders of Ali while he lays against ropes though. Good body shot landed at mid way point. Decent uppercut landed by Ali. No real round winner evident.
Round 9 - Ali. Dancing brought into it. Norton is really ineffective when Ali is on move and jabbing. Good onetwo landed by Ali. Overhand landed by Ken in last 30 seconds. Not enough to turn round. Clear Ali round for me.
Round 10 - Even. Even round to midway point. Ali dancing and tying up Norton well when he stops moving. Good left landed by Ali. Close round. Last 30 seconds has Norton winging in his wild rights and missing. Drawn round. Neither did enough.
Round 11 - Ali. More flat footed Ali. Norton against ropes. Good defensive work done by Norton. Good hard right landed by Ali in last minute. Norton continues to go to the body and throw wild rights (missing)
Round 12 - Norton. Norton doing the work, Ali taking a rest it seems. Ali starts firing back in last minute. Not enough to change round.
Round 13 - Norton. Even round for first 2 minutes. Good exchange near end of round, give and take. Ali landed more shorts, Norton landed harder shots.
Round 14 - Even. Norton lands a few solid single shots. Ali lands a nice combo in middle of round. Last minute is a bit scrappy, no real decisive blows landed.
Round 15 - Ali. Dancing works for Ali again. Leaves Norton ineffective for first half of round with Ali jabbing from outside. Norton lands a decent right when he catches Ali close to ropes at the halfway mark. Ali continues dancing with Norton making wild lunges. Norton lands some hard single shots at end. Not enough.

6-5-4

 

Ali "won" that fight with Norton by way of his name...if Norton had been fighting Joe Blow that night in NYC...he would have been the new champ...

 

Ali-Norton was robbery, out and out. Shame on boxing for that travesty....but actually, Young beat Ali before that.

 

Jesus, here we go again with robberies and conspiracies. I can only speak for myself but, to me, a robbery is if a guy beats another guy decisively and consistently over at least 2/3rds of a fight, be it 10,12,15 round fight. Norton did neither. Again, yes it was close, and in a lot of peoples books it went to the final round, a round in which Norton simply didnt do enough to win. Ali put it in and Norton didnt, its there for all to see. Personally i didnt think he needed the last round.

 

Did Young **** beat Ali. Scorecards for both? Fair play to Luf for posting his. The Young fight was horrible, and no chance did Young do enough to win.