Ali-Norton III article (40 years ago today)

The Norton fight...Jimmy Young etc. back in the 1970's...Ali won those because of who he was....not for what he had done in the ring on these particular nights...pure and simple...

 

Good observation. The data if you want to use the punch stats overwhelming say Norton threw more and landed more

 

Do you have the round by round breakdown?

 

See post #13 by Robbi on page one in this thread. You can watch the entire fight. Norton out worked and out landed Ali.

Let us know what you think!

Ali likely won round 15, however in scoring a fight, rounds 1-14 count as much on the 10 point must system.

IMO Norton won 9-6, or 8-6-1. Norton himself felt he won 10 rounds. And Ali admitted he lost. Arguably one of the ten worst calls in heavyweight title fight history. A very bad judge might give Ali some close rounds to ahem help him on the cards, but I can't see Ali winning nine rounds. Nope.

 

ESPN's 30 for 30 shorts documentary "Robbed" includes Harold Lederman, one of the judges who scored for Ali. Lederman said if you weren't sitting within in the first 10 rows, or you watched it on TV, you couldn't appreciate the impact of the blows Ali was landing.

The people closest to the action - the two judges and the ref - all gave it to Ali by nearly identical scores.

The people who sat further away or watched it on film didn't.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=11935642

 

Remember the promoter picks the judges and they were very pro-Ali. He was still their cash cow.

I agree with Lederman 95% of the time, but when I disagree with him, he usually gives a BS reason like this. This impact of the blows would have to trump Norton out landing and out throwing Ali, which is did not. Norton was not knocked down or stunned, nor did he alter his tactics from whatever Ali landed. Whatever Ali landed did not bother Norton. There is no visible evidence.

 

I think Norton won, but I don't call it a robbery . . . usually. There was a time period when I thought had been given the benefit of the doubt.

This was widely felt leading to the judges scores being revealed to the viewing audience after each round.

I also recall there being a TV show in which a panel of experts watching the fight and rendering their opinion regarding the winner. Shockingly Joe Frazier opined that Norton won!

 

Mendoza, Mercante is still considered the dean of boxing ref's by many and taught many judges his method of scoring, for you to say, which you have, that he was a very bad judge of boxing for thinking Ali won makes has you come across as boxing illiterate, neither you, I or anyone else in this forum is in his class. The AP had Ali winning 9-6, the UPI had Norton up but only by one round as many others like the judges did Ali, 8-7. As with the judges and many boxing scribes across the nation the scoring going into the last round for them was 7-7 with Norton giving away the last round and the bout. Having boxed from a young age for twenty years and then trained and scored in bouts thats how I had it also. Again, your not in most of those and certainly not Mercante's league in judging.

Most forget that WWS held a 10 man round by round review and scoring of the bout shortly after the fight, Frazier, Louis, and respected boxing scribes made up the panel and like the judges had it 7-7 after 14 frames. Collectively calling the last round a draw they had it 7-7-1. Kenny was present and was very surprised.

 

OverallPunch stats can be misleading in determining who won a majority of rounds.

 

Nice one.

 

Timmers,

Mercante scored it 8-6 for Ali. Even the greats can have bad nights. There's no way Norton only won 6 rounds, and Mercante left one round out on his card. Hmmm, I'd like to see which round that was and then determine if Norton likely won that one.

I'm a fine judge, agreeing with Harold Lederman 95% of the time. Scoring a fight really isn't that hard. I have posted full cards and rounds here, which no has disagreed with.

I think you are underestimating how much Ali meant to boxing , and really should the referee who's in control of the fight be able to score it too? A bit too much power for one man to have if you ask me.

Boxing needs to ban the promoter picking the judges...too much influence and let's be real, some judges are biased or ahem, produce such bad cards they are either incompetent or crooked.

Having said that, we can all watch the fight and score it for ourselves. Those who think Ali won will have to give him every close round and explain why Norton was busier, controlled the pace, and landed more lost. They can't.

It doesn't wash. Ali said he lost, and Norton felt robbed. The January 1998 issue of Boxing Monthly ranked Ali-Norton III as the fifth most disputed title fight decision in history.

I'd like to see the judge's full scorecards here round by round. Does anyone have it?

 

Norton landed 286 punches, Ali 199. Norton barely threw a punch in the 15th round, so that suggests he was far more active in the others.

If there is a decision win where no one was hurt, there were no knockdowns, and the winner landed 87 fewer punches, I'd like to see it. And that decision is likely highly controversial.

 

See Bowe-Holyfield II. Bowe landed 100 MORE punches than Holyfield (more than Norton landed on Ali) AND WAS THE DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPION ... and Bowe lost the decision and his titles.

Bowe landed 353 punches to Evander's 253 landed punches. (Bowe landed more power shots, too.)

And I've never heard anyone complain about the decision (but me). LOL

 

That fight should have a big * next to it. I have said this before. The fan man incident allowed a 21-minutebreak. This allowed an often gassed Holyfield plenty of time to completely refuel. Bowe's corner had issues. His pregnant wife was taken to the hospital in shock when the " fan man " landed and his pshcyo manager Rock Newman thought it was some type of assassination attempt on the leader of the nation of Islam and focused on security rather than the boxing match. Bowe had other issues besides boxing that night.

Holyfield landed much cleaner and more impactful punches that Ali did.

Again, Ali only landed 199 punches. 13.26 punches a round on average. That's it. Hardly enough to win enough rounds, but kudos for a great example of another fight where the one guy threw a lot more and landed a lot more lost on the cards.

Who won it? I thought each man won six rounds.

The scorecards read: 114-114, 114-113 ,and 115-113. Majority Decision for Holyfield via razor-thin margin! One point away from a Majority Draw.

Not everyone felt Holy won it. The AP had it 115-113 for Bowe.