Ali not once beat Norton clearly - So some perspective regarding Pac plz!

Yet he is still the greatest.
He couldnt handle Norton due to styles. Lost the first fight and arguably lost the rematch too.
That does not diminish his achievements.

Likewise, i dont see how a Pacquiao horror trilogy against Juan Manuel Marquez (a GREAT in his own right) should diminish pacquiao's legacy!
perspective people!
losing to JMM doesnt all of a sudden mean your win over cotto was ****. or over hatton. or over margarito. or over Barrera. or over Morales

p.s. i thought JMM won 116-113

 

Fair points.

 

Good points and I agree. Boxing fans can be very fickle.

 

Its because its still very close to the fight people are still pissed about it.
I gave Ali the second though, norton won that trilogy 2-1 imo, also had him losing to jimmy young, still consider him the heavyweight goat though.

 

I absolutely agree. Just because a guy has your number, doesn't mean you're not a great fighter...but what that fight did show was how Pacquiao doesn't have a plan B. He can't outbox a patient fighter and struggles with movement.

 

Pacquiao is certainly great. He's the second or third best active fighter out there. There's no shame in him getting outboxed by Marquez. Actually, it is kind of a shame considering he was a 9/1 favorite, and considering the talk leading up to this fight was not if PAC would win, but how bad he would beat Marquez. Hell, even Pac's conditioning coach said that not even God could help Marquez . His trainer said he would knock him out within 6 rounds.

 

Yea after some time hopefully people will move on.
I also have the ali - norton trilogy 2-1 norton, just like i have the jmm - pac trilogy 2-1 to pac.

When you start losing to guys who are overmatched, that's when you start to think hmmmm. This guy is full of ****.

 

Haters will be haters. It's the influx of *****s and other Mexican fans causing all these Pac-bashing threads. It's due to them wanting to return the favor by giving *******s all kinds of ****. Remember *******s are arrogant fan boys.

I scored the fight for JMM as well but the hate is unbearable now.

 

Yeah true, I think it did Marquez' legacy a huge favour though, there wont be anymore discussion about him being a atg or being on the same level as barrera and morales because he lacks the career defining win, imo he won it last saturday thus putting him right up there with the mexican greats.

 

Actually, it does. So there goes your point!

Like Pac, Ali had a very well-connected & influential management team. He received several BS decisions, (Norton being a prime example) and was routinely allowed to cheat. (If he hadn't been allowed to hold Frazier behind the head while punching him, Frazier most likely would have won their second fight.)

- And Foreman beat the count.

- And ....


but folks just WANT to buy into the whole "Ali was the greatest" myth, just like with Pac. That's human nature.

 

Thats roach and ariza being idiots. And yea most of us predicted a massacre in the ring. That says more about us than it does about pac though.

What it does mean however is that maybe the improvements over the last few years weren't as big as we thought. But again, what that does tell us is that pacs recent wins are maybe all the more impressive! And that he's had that in him the whole time.

 

i dont think Manny isnt a great fighter but i think ppl over rate his recent stuff

i think the JMM fight should bring some fans back down to earth

Margarito and Clottey and Shane were pretty tailor made

Juan was the first guy in a while that wasnt tailor made and he made Manny struggle

 

good points. but thats the nature of the pound for pound list.
look at robert guerrero, he struggled against casamayor, a very tricky southpaw, so guerrero was'nt that great.
next fight, he beats katsidis, who has a style absolutely made for guerrero, then he's one of the best pound 4 pound fighters around.
as they say, your only as good as your last fight.

 

you could turn it the other way and say that Pacquiao beat good fighters. but when he fought someone HE is tailor made for, a stylistic nightmare for him, he struggled.

I think the fight says more about Marquez than it does about pac.

 

Seems to me there are other similarities between Pac & Ali:

Both flagrantly cheated on their wives, and both were pawns, controlled by the people around them.

I seem to remember Ali once saying, "I do what my Malcom X tell me to do."